- Location
- Under a Rock
You make the probably correct assumption that 1000s of years of basically unbeatable magic optimizations exist, but then make the second assumption that Link has access to those optimizations. Its possible that they are royal secrets. Its also possible that Link simply hasn't had all the training that could benefit his green magic.
For a real world example to illustrate my point, even extremely competent programmers whose livelihoods and ambitions depend on their programming skills don't know everything there is to know about programming well. Training can be expensive and always takes time. Sometimes, they are wrong about the best way to do things, and it is very difficult to change their minds.
Link is young, upper middle class at the most, and has been very busy. There are probably expert teachers who could improve his Green magic by leaps and bounds.
Your conclusion on priorities might still hold. But I think it is a closer call than you do.
Last edited:
The prologue has a section on this:
I think we should ask the High Priestess for any info she has on the goddesses granting affinities to marked people. This may then be a viable route for old magic research.
- Location
- Yes
In terms of 'is Link using Green magic optimally for combat' I agree that Link can certainly get better, I just think he's more useful applying his training then doing more training. I think he's at around 95% efficiency meanwhile you think he's more at around 80% efficiency.
I've quoted that scene from the prologue and bolded some facts that, I think, suggest that Link has the resources to be closer to my guess than yours.
1. Link's actually a noble and from a family important and trusted enough to have Raolin appointed as High Captain. We don't know exactly where that fits in Hyrule's command structure, but it was enough to get Raolin into the council meetings, have dozens of junior officers reporting to him, the ability to get Link appointed to the royal guard, and to be a high ranking commander during the Castletown attack. I think you said Link was barely upper-middle class to argue that he wouldn't be given access to the best training through lack of money/political connections? He's got plenty of resources.
2. He's young, but has seven years worth of formal training*. That's plenty of time for the military to teach him the relevant skills. Plus whatever he was doing before he joined the military.
3. Finally, his magic affinity is weak. There's not much there to train in the first place even if he was missing something. His combat training would be much more relevant than his minor magical ability.
Now Royal secrets or Sheikah secrets are certainly possible. However, I suspect that most of those secrets would be for combining multiple affinities since that's what sets the Royals and Sheikah apart from other mages. And at least for now Link only has one affinity. Yet! Growth mindset!
Actually, one possibly untapped area is the Courage fragment. Zelda knew how to use her Wisdom/Power fragments actively so I'm pretty optimistic about Link being able to leverage his Courage fragment much more effectively.
*Which means he joined the military when he was 15! I wonder if that's normal or not for Hyrule?
- Location
- Under a Rock
You are correct that I misjudged Link's social status. I am moving my etstimate of how close he is to his personal Green magic ceiling up, from 80% to maybe 90%.In terms of 'is Link using Green magic optimally for combat' I agree that Link can certainly get better, I just think he's more useful applying his training then doing more training. I think he's at around 95% efficiency meanwhile you think he's more at around 80% efficiency.
I've quoted that scene from the prologue and bolded some facts that, I think, suggest that Link has the resources to be closer to my guess than yours.
1. Link's actually a noble and from a family important and trusted enough to have Raolin appointed as High Captain. We don't know exactly where that fits in Hyrule's command structure, but it was enough to get Raolin into the council meetings, have dozens of junior officers reporting to him, the ability to get Link appointed to the royal guard, and to be a high ranking commander during the Castletown attack. I think you said Link was barely upper-middle class to argue that he wouldn't be given access to the best training through lack of money/political connections? He's got plenty of resources.
2. He's young, but has seven years worth of formal training*. That's plenty of time for the military to teach him the relevant skills. Plus whatever he was doing before he joined the military.
3. Finally, his magic affinity is weak. There's not much there to train in the first place even if he was missing something. His combat training would be much more relevant than his minor magical ability.
Now Royal secrets or Sheikah secrets are certainly possible. However, I suspect that most of those secrets would be for combining multiple affinities since that's what sets the Royals and Sheikah apart from other mages. And at least for now Link only has one affinity. Yet! Growth mindset!
Actually, one possibly untapped area is the Courage fragment. Zelda knew how to use her Wisdom/Power fragments actively so I'm pretty optimistic about Link being able to leverage his Courage fragment much more effectively.
*Which means he joined the military when he was 15! I wonder if that's normal or not for Hyrule?
However, I don't think he has had 7 years of training. It has been 7 years since he joined the military, but I think a significant fraction of that was active service.
However, all of this is moot, since we both agree that we shouldn't be spending time optimizing Link's magical skills.
Last edited:
- Location
- New York, United States
Likely so. However, I suspect that even a minor affinity could be quite strong in an emergency given the way we can pour power into a Marked to keep them from running out. Even if he never learns any of the spells (Din's Fire, etc) that Link learns in the various games, a constant string of lucky strikes and escapes in battle could be very potent for the purpose of keeping him alive and defeating martially superior enemies.
It wouldn't surprise me if the mere act of being Marked increased someone's magical affinity, since the process involves soaking them in a tremendous amount of our power. Power that stays in them, since we don't get it back.
On the other hand our power is the power of the Void, of Old Magic, and not the magic of the three Goddesses and their affinities.
On the other other hand, our ability to give people magic (at a transfer loss) suggests that Void power is compatible with the magic of the Goddesses, at least as Hyleans use it.
@EtherealEmissary, can you offer any analysis on what gives some Hyleans more magical affinity than others? Can you think of any way the affinity of a Marked might be improved?
Chapter 5: Revelations
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
“Are you a traitor?” Zelda asked.
“No, never,” the young man said, brusque. He looked nervous. Jittery.
Zelda recorded his response, as well as other details of his disposition. She couldn't be sure of his age, but his boyish features suggested he might well be the youngest Sheikah she'd met thus far.
“Are you working with Vesyrn?” she asked.
“Yes.”
Zelda did a double take.
“Oh. Not to traitorous ends,” he added swiftly. “He was my handler. My mentor. That's all. I swear.”
His response is sincere, Fi's voice echoed.
Zelda finished her notes. Why couldn't they all be this straightforward?
“That will be all for now,” she said, nodding to the guards.
“Really?” he asked, seeming surprised. “That's it?”
Zelda refrained from further response, watching silently as he was led away. This was going much slower than anticipated; best not to draw it out any longer than it had to be.
-o-
“Are you a traitor?” Zelda asked. Traitor, she thought to herself over and over. At some point, it had stopped sounding like a real word.
“I am not, Your Grace,” the man said, frowning. He sat with one leg over the other, hands on his knee. He seemed attentive and respectful, with an air of refined charm.
She recorded his response and the other details. “Are you working with Vesyrn?”
“No, Your Grace. It pains me even to be associated with that wretch of a man. His treachery is a stain upon us all.”
A little much, she thought, but he was forthcoming at least — unlike most of the others. Zelda jotted down her notes.
I cannot be sure of his response, Fi said.
“Really?” Zelda blurted out.
“Hmm?” he asked.
“Oh. It's nothing,” she said, nodding to the guards. “Thank you for your cooperation. That will be all for now.”
He rose, bowed to her, then nodded to the guards and cleared the room without further delay.
-o-
“Are you a traitor?” Zelda asked by rote.
The older Sheikah woman stared at her incredulously. “No, Your Grace,” she said. “No, I am not. Why do you ask?”
Zelda rolled her eyes. Best stick to the script. “Are you working with Vesyrn?” she continued, scribbling notes. The hours were dragging by, and her mind was well beyond protesting the tedium.
The woman raised an eyebrow. “What's your angle here?”
Zelda put down her quill, placing her hands on the table with fingers laced. She took a breath. Patience, she had to remind herself. She met the woman's eyes with a smile. “I understand your frustration. But if you would be so kind as to answer my questions truthfully, we will be done much sooner.”
“This can't be just some official bookkeeping,” the woman said, wholly ignoring Zelda's instruction. “Otherwise you wouldn't be doing it yourself.”
Zelda closed her eyes, resting her head on the table. How many more were left? Surely they were almost done by now.
The Sheikah woman went on, indifferent to her plight. “And I wouldn't expect you of all people to think you might make a novel contribution here. You've clearly got something in mind. So, what is this about?”
“Are you working with Vesyrn?” Zelda asked again, not bothering to raise her head.
“Your Grace,” the woman said, putting that distinct smarmy affectation to her voice. Zelda heard the shuffle of the guardsmen shifting stance and raising their weapons, indicating the woman had made an attempt to stand. She was the… what, sixth to try that now? Why did they have to be so insistent with the attempts to ingratiate themselves?
Zelda leaned back in her chair, rubbing her face. “Please,” she said, “just answer the question.”
“Forgive me,” the woman said. “I just want to help. That's all. There's so much to be done, and we're less than useless like this. You have to see that?”
“You can best help by answering my question,” Zelda said tersely.
“With respect, Your Grace, but what does that accomplish? You're clearly asking these questions of all of us. Do you imagine any traitors would out themselves? You know what we are, right?”
“Nayru's tits!” Zelda yelled, her frustration having reached its limits.
The woman withdrew, shocked at her sudden outburst.
“Listen,” Zelda said irritably. “I don't give a helmarat's ass about anything you have to say right now. I'm likely the most incompetent interrogator you'll ever have the good fortune to be interrogated by, so it doesn't even matter what I think about you. But I have magical powers granted to me by Hylia herself that lets me tell when someone is being sincere and honest. And they don't work when you're trying to be clever or smarmy. So just answer the thrice-damned question! Okay?!”
“Oh,” the Sheikah woman said. “In that case: no. I'm not working with Vesyrn. In fact, I've never even met the man face to face.”
“Thank you!”
I judge her response to be sincere, Fi's voice said. Zelda made the note.
“My pleasure, Your Grace. Is that all?” the woman asked.
“For now,” she said, nodding to the guards.
Goddesses, have mercy.
-o-
Zelda handed her final report to Wymar. He looked the parchment over studiously.
“And you're certain of this?”
She nodded. “Of the cleared ones, at least. The ‘maybe clear’ category I'm just guessing from the fact that everyone judged them to be loyal. I thought perhaps they could work in conjunction with the cleared ones, to minimize risk? I'll keep a couple of the most trusted cleared ones for security, and send the rest after the roaming Blin. Arlinkar should be fit for duty by now; I trust him to handle the details.”
Wymar grimaced. “There are two in the ‘clear’ category that we've all judged to be disloyal. Zelda, I can't—”
“—I know!” she said, throwing up her hands. “I know, Wymar. Trust me, I know how it sounds. But you have to have faith in me, and trust that I know what I'm doing. I'm certain — they're all loyal.”
He eyed her. She stood, resolute.
“Fine,” he said, relenting. “As you say. What are your plans for the others?”
Zelda shifted uneasily. She couldn't imagine that the next part was going to be well received. “I want to go in for at least one more round of questioning, using the cleared Sheikah for assistance. And while I work out how to best sort through them, maybe we can…”
Wymar stiffened up, and refused to meet her eye. An uncomfortable silence settled between them. She fell silent. Wymar took several moments to respond.
“Your Grace… I'm leaving for the front in the morning. We both know that I can't spare the men necessary to guard them.”
“That's fine,” she said, placing her hand on his arm. “Listen. I understand. But they can't all be traitors. If you don't think it's worth it to sort through them further, then we'll go with your initial plan. If you believe you can keep them under control, then I defer to your judgement.”
He nodded, easing up. “Thank you. I'll take the remainder with me, then. I'll rest better anyway knowing that you're not in danger.”
“You shouldn't worry about me.” Zelda tried to assure him with a smile. “Wymar, the Sheikah are back in service! Well, some of them at least. I'm feeling safer already.”
He returned her smile, if somewhat uneasily.
-o-
Link undid the lace on his chest and placed his hand on the table, keeping his eyes on her the whole time.
Zelda didn't know for sure what approach he planned on taking, and so she did her best to not to give anything away prematurely. She was vulnerable right now, but he couldn't possibly know that. One thing was for certain; he was going to have to put in a lot more effort than that if he wanted to get at her secrets.
“So unless I'm misinterpreting…” he said, pausing in thought. “As long as I stay clear of the gossips, I can move to your side of the castle?”
She met his eyes, unflinching. “That might be a possibility. But you don't know who all the gossips are.”
He gaped at her, screwing up his face. “Uh, I'm pretty sure I do. And I don't understand why this has to be so complicated. You know I intend to seduce you. Can you just give me a straight answer? Do you have any other lovers, or not?”
“Link!” she said, taken aback. “You can't just ask questions like that! And besides… I don't even know if it will work out until you try it.”
“Fine,” he said, reaching for her chest.
“No!” she yelped, batting his hand away. “You can't just … that's not how this works!”
He pulled back, crossing his arms in frustration. “Look. I'm trying my best here. It's not my fault if I don't know what I'm doing. It's your job to explain the rules.”
“Alright, fine,” she said. She had to admit he had a point. It was just… she was used to more experienced partners. “I'll walk you through this. But don't get upset if it doesn't go exactly the way you want. One step at a time, okay? Are you ready?”
He nodded.
“Alright. Pick up your hand.”
He did so.
“Now—without saying anything—place the three cards you intend to use face down on your side of the table.”
He nodded again, following along.
“Declare your intent,” she said.
“I intend to seduce you and steal your secrets so I can avoid your gossips — even though I already know which ones they are — and infiltrate further to your side of the castle. But you knew all that already.”
Zelda ignored him, placing four of her own cards face down — two green Sheikah, a blue lover, and a red mystic. “Now roll the dice.”
He did so. A three. Zelda muttered a curse under her breath, picking up the lover card and returning it to her hand.
“Now flip them over,” she said.
She watched with increasing agitation as he flipped over a red lover, a green merchant, and a blue Sheikah. Ugh. She was expecting him to play the red general. She still had a chance to keep him from progressing, but first she'd have to make sure he didn't—
Link played second a blue Sheikah over his face-up one. “I can do that, right?”
Another blue Sheikah?! How… “…Yes. That is technically a legal move.”
“Okay. Good. Then I use my blue Sheikah to distract your green ones.”
“Link! Are you cheating? How do you know I have two green Sheikah?”
“Because you just told me?”
“What—no, you can't… that's not…”
“Zelda! Relax, I'm only joking,” he said with a laugh. “But really. What else would you play? You expected me to use the red general again.”
Zelda scowled, removing her two Sheikah from play. Link did the same. He pushed his merchant forward, and she was forced to show her mystic. She took his red rupee and both cards were returned to their hands.
“Satisfied? I now send my red lover to seduce you and steal your—”
“—Yes, fine,” she said bitterly, unwinding the lace on her chest and flipping it open. “Go ahead.”
With a smirk, Link reached inside and took out the runed figurine that represented her secret notes, placing it in his own chest.
-o-
Zelda looked out over the city as she was carried by litter to the Temple of Hylia. It was the first time she had been out of the castle in almost two weeks, and Castletown was in a worse state than she had thought.
The stench was every bit as unbearable as before, even if the grizzly scenes of battle and bloodshed had long-since been cleaned up and the bodies carted away. Many houses were boarded up. It looked like the raw materials used for barricading the streets during the siege had been repurposed to build makeshift shelters and tents. But there were still so many people out on the streets, and piles of garbage and refuse littered the walkways and alleys. Zelda held her lavender-scented silk closer to her face, resolving to do something — anything about this mess. It both infuriated and saddened her to see her people living in such squalor.
Her procession reached the temple and she stepped down from the litter, walking the short way to meet High Priestess Vestele at the stone steps. The middle-aged woman was garbed in a flowing white dress with her white-blonde hair pulled into a tight bun. Above them, the magnificent bell tower of the temple loomed.
“Our queen, the blessed champion of the Holy Mother, graces us with her presence,” Vestele intoned reverently to a chorus of bells held by a dozen monks standing on either side of her. The incense from their lamps wafted and curled through the air with a passing breeze. Vestele descended the steps and offered her hand.
Zelda took it with a curtsy. “It is my pleasure, Your Holiness. Thank you for receiving me. We have much to discuss.”
“But of course. Please — after you, Your Grace,” Vestele said, gesturing to the abbey.
Zelda nodded, taking the lead. Her guard fanned out to cover the steps. Link and her two Sheikah bodyguards took up watch by the archway leading to the abbey as Zelda passed inside. She would prefer them at her side to be sure, but weapons were not permitted anywhere inside the temple grounds, and neither were soldiers of any variety.
She and the priestess continued alone through a hanging garden featuring rows of stone statues, depicting the forms previous monarchs and high priestesses. Zelda looked for it, but Father's figure was nowhere to be found.
“It has been commissioned, though it is not yet complete,” Vestele said, following her gaze. “I will be sure to send for you once it arrives.”
“Thank you. I look forward to seeing it,” Zelda lied, with an amiable smile.
An abbot met them as they reached the vestibule and lead them inside. Zelda's heart fluttered in her chest as she went over the words again in her mind. She was not by any means looking forward to this meeting, and it approached nearer with every step. Vestele caught her eye, and Zelda looked away.
Finally they reached a sitting room that had been prepared for the occasion. Zelda entered and took a seat; Vestele after her. The abbot closed the door behind them, and at last they were alone.
The priestess relaxed into her seat. “You're a bundle of nerves, dear,” she said.
“I know,” Zelda said. She tried not to blush. “Can you blame me?”
“Tea?” Vestele reached for the kettle on the table and poured two cups, offering Zelda one.
“Thank you.” Zelda took the offered cup.
“I'm afraid we're fresh out of nightshade, or I'd offer some,” Vestele said.
Zelda choked, fighting to keep herself from spewing the hot liquid over her host. “Pardon?”
“Just a bit of humor to lighten the mood," the priestess said. She laughed, and Zelda joined her uneasily.
Zelda set her cup aside. She had lost her train of thought now, and was unsure how to begin. “I've been meaning to speak with you for some time now,” she began awkwardly, “concerning the events of that day. I find myself in the most precarious situation. On one hand, the entire army saw me combat the hordes with Hylia's might. On the other…”
Vestele shifted in her seat, moving closer. “What's she calling herself?”
Zelda cocked her head, looking quizzically to the priestess.
“I know it wasn't Hylia who granted you that boon, dear,” Vestele said. “So who is it? What is she calling herself?”
“I'm afraid you're mistaken,” Zelda replied, her heart pounding in her ears. “The Holy Mother spoke to me herself, through—”
“Nonsense,” Vestele said, waving a hand dismissively. “Hylia's been dead for ages. The entity that contacted you was—”
“Legacy,” Zelda half-muttered. But how did she… ages?
Vestele regarded her idly. “Odd. That one doesn't fit the pattern.”
“I'm sorry—pattern?” Zelda's mind refused to work.
Vestele continued casually. “I can't tell you how much I've been dreading this conversation. I've been fretting over how best to get in touch with you — and whether any of our efforts would be for naught. I'm glad you've come to me, though. It means she's willing to bargain. They can be quite conniving — though I suppose this one seems benevolent enough.” She sighed. “It's hard to believe something like this is happening in my lifetime.”
Zelda buried her face in her palms, bracing herself for yet another world-shattering revelation. She really should be used to these by now. “What is it?”
“Before we get to that, I need you to relay to me what this Legacy has told you.”
“Vestele, this is… I… I can't do this,” Zelda said, with strained laughter. “It's too much. I'm teetering on the edge here. Emotionally compromised doesn't even begin to describe it. Please, just… Fi? Some help?”
“Fi?” the priestess asked, sitting upright. “How is it you—”
“Hello, Mistress,” Fi said, materializing from the aether.
“By the Mother…” Vestele gaped, reaching for her spectacles. She rose from her seat and inspected the ethereal entity, circling around. With care, she reached out and ran her fingers through Fi's form, leaving wisps of chromatic vapor in her wake. Her form repaired itself just as quickly.
“…How can this be?”
“I can confirm that it was indeed Hylia who contacted Zelda,” Fi said, seeming unfazed by Vestele's prodding. “Though, it is also true that Hylia is no more. Priestess — I can only surmise that your belief stems from an event that happened many ages ago. While it is true that Hylia was defeated and forced to withdraw from the world, her death was a more recent event. She gave the last of her power to save your people from the Blin.”
“Astounding!” Vestele said in awe. She was in tears. “Esteemed emissary, what more can you tell us of the Holy Mother?”
Zelda only gawked. She supposed it was somewhat comforting that Legacy's story was not a lie. Or at least, that seemed to not be the case. She had only Fi's word on the matter — but at the same time, Vestele seemed to know something about Fi too, providing some measure of confirmation.
“Regretfully, little more information is available to me at this time,” Fi said.
Vestele deflated, returning to her seat and stowing her spectacles away. “I am getting on in age,” she said. “I suppose I should know better than to get my hopes up by now.”
“How is it you know about Fi?” Zelda asked.
The priestess looked to her and made to speak, but then shook her head and turned her attention back to the specter. “We'll get to that. First: esteemed emissary, who is Legacy?”
“Legacy is the entity Hylia entrusted with the last of her power,” Fi replied helpfully, spinning in place.
Vestele pursed her lips. “Legacy is not a Fae, then?”
“A Fae?!”
“Negative,” Fi said. “Legacy is not a Fae.”
“Oh, good," Vestele said. "That's a relief. What is it Legacy desires?”
“Legacy wishes only to provide—”
“I'm sorry—Vestele?” Zelda said, losing patience. “We'll get to that in a moment. Legacy is no threat to us. Fi, that will be all for now — thank you.”
“As you wish, Mistress,” Fi said, vanishing just as abruptly as she appeared.
“Now,” Zelda said, turning back to the priestess. “What do Fae have to do with any of this?”
It was a long moment before Vestele gave her answer. She looked to be deep in thought. “They're something like castoffs,” she said finally. “Shells. Husks. Fragments of Hylia that broke off from what remained of her spirit, traveled through the Void, and made their way here to our world. Often they have her memories. Rarely do they care for us.”
Zelda puzzled through that. “But what connection do they have to… well, Fae? You know, like lore and folktales?” she asked.
“Hmm, where to begin?” Vestele said. “What do you know already?”
“I always assumed they were just stories and fables,” Zelda said frankly. “…But I do find it curious how abruptly those stories fell out of favor. According to my research, that is. Did something happen around the time of Arminel's Conquest?”
Vestele frowned. “You're not the first to make the connection. It's one of our greatest failings. We should have been more careful.”
“We?”
“The Faith, dear,” Vestele said. She gave a curt laugh. “Or rather the Seekers, if you want to be precise. And bear in mind — I had no part in those decisions. No more than your part in founding Hyrule.”
Zelda chewed on the words. “I thought the Seekers were—”
“Oh, they are,” Vestele interrupted. “That just wasn't their original purpose.”
“Vestele?”
“Hm?”
Intellectually, Zelda knew the High Priestess was not the one deserving of her anger. She tried to hold on to that, tried not to let too much bite into her words. “Please, don't take this the wrong way. But how dare the clergy perpetuate such a lie to our people all this time? If you believed Hylia to be dead — then why?!”
“It's a fair question,” Vestele said, grimacing. “And one I had to wrestle with myself. I… sympathize with your anger. But one finds themselves in a position like ours, and we're forced to choose. On one hand there is tradition, and stability. On the other… who knows what chaos the realm would be plunged into, if they knew? I always held that the core teachings remained true, regardless of Hylia's absence. And if that's so, then what are a few harmless lies if they give people hope? Especially in the face of a bleak and unforgiving world such as ours.”
Zelda wasn't sure what to make of that. She didn't like it, but she also couldn't fault the reasoning. “I suppose it isn't important right now,” she said, unwilling to admit defeat. “What can you tell me of the Fae? You seemed genuinely worried earlier, and that gives me pause.”
“…You know how I said they were like fragments of Hylia, cast off from her essence?”
Zelda nodded.
Vestele shifted, curling her feet under her legs. Zelda found herself mimicking the motion.
“Keep in mind that we don't know all that much. But the Fae… something about being disconnected from Hylia's spirit deprives them of the nourishment they need to survive. And so they feed on our essence instead.”
Zelda felt a chill crawl up her spine. The priestess continued.
“As I said, not all of them are malicious. We were saved by one once — one calling herself Lucia. You would know the event as ‘The Reaffirmation.’ At the height of the Gerudo Wars, she came to us claiming to be Hylia herself. With her aid… we cast out the Gerudo. And their dark god.”
“Their what?!”
She leaned in closer, voice barely above a whisper. “Their dark god. Morudo Geira.”
Zelda shook her head. Somehow the name sounded familiar, though she had never heard it before and was sure she had never come across it in her studies.
Vestele waved a hand. “That isn't of any concern right now. Where was I?”
“Lucia?” Zelda ventured. “Feeding off our souls?”
The priestess nodded. “You asked after folklore? Well, if you view the stories from the right perspective, then you'll see it clearly enough. In the stories, Fae blessed villages in exchange for humble offerings. Yes?”
Zelda nodded hesitantly. “That doesn't sound so bad,” she said.
“No, it doesn't,” Vestele replied. “Not until you look closer. Not until you read the right accounts. Perhaps you've heard the tale of a man who dreamed of restoring Hyrule to its former glory? They say he lead the largest army ever assembled, and marched over the Plains of Ruin to retake our ancestral lands from the hordes once and for all.”
Zelda gasped. “No. Arminel?”
The priestess nodded. “The one and the same.”
Arminel's Conquest referred to the period of prolonged war against the Blin from around year 540 to 600 of the Forsaken Era. Despite sixty years of war, every gain by the general and his armies was offset by equal or greater losses. The costs were immense, and countless lives were lost.
“I'm going to guess he didn't die peacefully in his sleep, as the histories say?” Zelda asked.
“No,” Vestele said, shaking her head with a sad smile. “No, the truth is far more sinister. It wasn't dreams of glory that blinded the general to his folly. It was a Fae named Cyrae. She promised him victory in exchange for the souls of those he slew… and of those who died in battle. Over the years the general became increasingly obsessed with what he viewed as his destiny, sending his forces on ever riskier assaults in an effort to maintain her favor. But as you might guess, she never intended to allow the general his victory; she only desired sustenance. She was careful not to let the scales tip too far, knowing Arminel would never return home in defeat when victory seemed close at hand. Eventually the general was assassinated by his younger brother — the first Seeker — who learned of Cyrae and her treachery. He sealed the Fae in the spear he shoved through his brother's back, and there she remains to this day.”
They sat in silence as Zelda considered the tale. She had to admit it made more sense than the historical account, at least in light of everything else she now knew. She always wondered how a brilliant general could have been such an imbecile as to fight a losing war for sixty years…
“But that doesn't answer my question,” she said after a time. “What does that have anything to do with the folklore?”
Vestele shrugged. "I admit, Cyrae was one of the worst by far. Most Fae weren't so bad, to hear it told. That is, unless you consider desperate farmers being convinced to flay their children alive and drown them in their own blood out of fear of a bad harvest.”
Zelda shuddered. “Okay. I see your point.”
Vestele continued. “The Seekers were founded to find the Fae. All of them. To seal them, bind them, or destroy them where possible. Where not, they were locked away into mundane items and tossed into the ocean, or buried beneath the earth in deep chasms. And all records were destroyed, in hopes of preventing them from ever being found.”
“But I don't understand,” Zelda said, confused. “If you believed I was under the influence of a Fae, then why—”
“Need I remind you that you wear the Crown, Your Grace?” Vestele interrupted. “What could we have possibly done? We certainly considered our options, but any brash any action on our part would have thrown the kingdom into chaos just as surely. No. After your assault on the Blin all that was left was to hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.”
Zelda considered her words, contemplating how best to proceed.
“Hope,” she said at last. “You've used that word a few times now. What does it mean to you?”
Vestele studied her. “I suppose I haven't thought about it all that much. Odd, I know, coming from the High Priestess.”
“No. I don't think it's odd at all,” Zelda said. “…I just think you've lost yours.”
Vestele recoiled as if Zelda had slapped her.
She continued. “Hope, in your mind, is something for the common people. Am I right? Something to keep them toiling away in the fields when the harvest is bare. Something to spur young men to fight and die in service to their kingdom.”
“Your point?” Vestele replied sourly.
“Vestele. I get it,” she said. She rose from her chair and knelt before the woman, softening her voice and meeting her eyes. “I know what that's like. I've lost track of how many times my world has been upended in the last week alone. And I've lost… so much. As we all have. …But what if I told you that there was still hope? Hope for a better future. Hope to end the blights. Hope to see our people reclaim all that we've lost, and more?”
Vestele only scoffed. “I'd say I don't believe you.”
-o-
Zelda stepped up onto the makeshift podium. Link and Cove — one of her Sheikah guard — stood behind her; Vestele to her right. Her royal guard stood at arms between them and the gathered crowd.
“Citizens of Castletown! People of Hyrule!” she cried. “Hear me! The Crown and the Faith stand united in these times of heartache, strife, and adversity. We know your plight! You are scared. You are hungry. You fear for your families, and for your children. But as the teachings say: darkness comes before the light! Together—”
It all happened so fast. Someone crashed into her from behind, knocking the wind from her lungs. She hit the wooden platform hard, jarring her head. Screams erupted from the crowd, and soldiers were barking orders. An ice barrier erupted inches from her face. She tried to climb to her feet, but she was yanked back by her legs off of the platform and onto the brick walkway. No sooner, an explosion sounded from the far side of the podium.
Zelda clutched her ears and gasped for air, trying to catch her breath. Just as she regained her bearings, Link dove in beside her, Vestele at his side. She curled up, using the wooden platform for cover. “What's… what's happening?!”
“Stay down!”
“Your Grace! Come with me! We have to get you—”
“A bomb! He has another bomb!”
Before she could react, a pair of arms had her by the shoulders and she was dragged into a nearby building. She dove forward and tensed up, expecting another explosion. None came.
“Zelda! Are you alright?" Link.
“I'm… I'm okay. I think. I hit my head. Just some cuts and bruises. What's happening?”
"Stay here,” Link said, just as Cove and three guardsman poured into the building. “You! Keep her safe!” he commanded, running off.
Zelda sat up against the wall. One of the guardsman offered her a flask, and she used it to wash away the dirt and blood.
She had been such a fool. Such a fool, to think this would end well.
-o-o-o-
Fi used 100 VP attempting to mark Link as directed. She informs you that the updated estimate for a successful mark is likely somewhere between 1550 and 8000 VP.Research Directive said:
She also used an additional 10 VP towards researching the invigoration effect. Her estimates have not meaningfully changed. It will require on the order of 700 to 1300 VP to finish research.
With a budget of only 10 VP to research the Lens of Truth effects, she does not have any findings to report, and is unable to provide any meaningful feedback at this time.
Misc Notes
- Zelda informs you that it is not possible to simply appoint a successor, other than her own trueborn child. By law, the monarch is decided by dynastic succession. She's not certain what would happen if she vacated the throne without an heir, but she supposes the Council would declare a regent (likely Wymar) until they sorted it out.
- Zelda was unable to give a speech before Wymar left. The auxiliary forces were not stationed in Castletown, but rather at the staging grounds further south, close to Lake Hylia. Also, this conflicted with her schedule to meet with Vestele the next day (which was locked in from the previous plan).
- Zelda does not know where Anli is, and has no leads to follow up on. She told Fi that she'd be happy to do this if Legacy knew otherwise or had any ideas.
- Seff departed Castletown two days prior to the siege. No one she asked is aware of his whereabouts.
- Fi transferred some magic to Zelda. If it did anything, neither of them noticed.
- Zelda is safe back at the castle. The details of the attack are still unfolding, but the casualties include two dead guardsmen, one injured guardsmen, six dead civilians, an unknown number of injured civilians, and one Sheikah guard that collapsed from magical exhaustion.
Your previous Void Power total was 1071.
Fi used a total of 122 VP this update, from one ethereal avatar and some telepathic communication which happened offscreen (VP usage for the interrogations were accounted for last update). She also used 100 VP attempting to mark Link, and 20 VP on research.
This update spanned two days, and you have earned 68 VP from Zelda during that interval.
You have earned 71 VP per day (out of a possible 150) from the planning quality incentive, for a total of 142.
You have earned 15 VP per day (out of a possible 50) from the plan brevity and conciseness incentive, for a total of 30.
You have earned 4 VP from the voting bonus during the goal plan cycle, and 1 VP from the voting bonus during the detail plan cycle.
You currently have 1074 Void Power.
Last edited:
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
First, a few comments on the detail plan. It had single bullet points for the items "Reestablish relations with Gorons", "Delegate: Look into Anli's disappearance", "Delegate: Where's Seff? He knows things", and "Contact Order of Sages for info on Old Magic, any artifacts they might have".
Our feedback:
(1) We couldn't accept these since they were nontrivial items and really should have been called out in a winning goal-plan if you wanted to focus on them. (I'm being nice in telling you about Seff.)
(2) Even if we didn't, there were no execution details. How do you wish to go about reestablishing relations with the Gorons? What message do you want to send to the Order, and what specifically are you looking for? We aren't going to do that kind of work for you.
(3) The detail plan said "Experiment with range/cost/versatility of Compel on small animals and bugs. Max 50 VP total". This was at odds with the goal plan's directive to "continue saving up to Mark Link". Therefore, no experimentation was done on Compel in this update.
...But more importantly than all of that, we're noticing a few issues with the new system. It's clear to us that it's clearly unclear to players what kinds of things should clearly go into goal plans and which unclearly shouldn't not go into detail plans.
Also, I have to officially admit defeat on my initial goal of posting at least one 5-10k word update per week within 2 days of closing the vote. I might get there eventually with practice, but right now it is beyond me.
...Also also, I don't do so well with fixed schedules, and attempting to hit that target in spite of my inability to do so is starting to take it's toll. (There's probably a reason my avatar features a chaos star, and my website is called "chaossnek.")
All that said: we're making yet another change to planning and voting. We understand it might be frustrating to have the planning structure change so rapidly, but we're also of the mind that doing so at the start of the Quest is much better while things are still fresh and nothing has solidified. "Fail fast," as they say. For what it's worth, this one should be much simpler and have less frustration for everyone.
So!
...Actually, let me make a new post so I'm not cluttering up the info post with a bunch of garbage for any new folks.
Hold tight!
Our feedback:
(1) We couldn't accept these since they were nontrivial items and really should have been called out in a winning goal-plan if you wanted to focus on them. (I'm being nice in telling you about Seff.)
(2) Even if we didn't, there were no execution details. How do you wish to go about reestablishing relations with the Gorons? What message do you want to send to the Order, and what specifically are you looking for? We aren't going to do that kind of work for you.
(3) The detail plan said "Experiment with range/cost/versatility of Compel on small animals and bugs. Max 50 VP total". This was at odds with the goal plan's directive to "continue saving up to Mark Link". Therefore, no experimentation was done on Compel in this update.
...But more importantly than all of that, we're noticing a few issues with the new system. It's clear to us that it's clearly unclear to players what kinds of things should clearly go into goal plans and which unclearly shouldn't not go into detail plans.
Also, I have to officially admit defeat on my initial goal of posting at least one 5-10k word update per week within 2 days of closing the vote. I might get there eventually with practice, but right now it is beyond me.
...Also also, I don't do so well with fixed schedules, and attempting to hit that target in spite of my inability to do so is starting to take it's toll. (There's probably a reason my avatar features a chaos star, and my website is called "chaossnek.")
All that said: we're making yet another change to planning and voting. We understand it might be frustrating to have the planning structure change so rapidly, but we're also of the mind that doing so at the start of the Quest is much better while things are still fresh and nothing has solidified. "Fail fast," as they say. For what it's worth, this one should be much simpler and have less frustration for everyone.
So!
...Actually, let me make a new post so I'm not cluttering up the info post with a bunch of garbage for any new folks.
Hold tight!
Last edited:
MMKII
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
Hylian card games, fairies, and assassination attempts oh my!
Can we begin being appropriately paranoid about Zelda's safety now? Though Wymar or Link may be in charge of all that, surely we can optimize things a bit or suggest improvements.
Can we begin being appropriately paranoid about Zelda's safety now? Though Wymar or Link may be in charge of all that, surely we can optimize things a bit or suggest improvements.
- Location
- USA
Well I think that went well.
Wymar overruled us on Sheikah smoothly, so let’s call incarcerating them a prevented unforced error.
Friendship is indeed the best ship.
Vestele hitting us over the head with a truth-hammer after we’ve cheerfully ignored all the Fae hints so far. Probably an artifact or two we might be able to study, though Fae might not technically be Old Magic.
Assassination attempt: No ragrets there. Gained some intel (“hey look Zelda’s paranoia is accurate! Who knew?”), meanwhile Zelda’s fine. Probably in worse mental shape than before, but we’ll just have to work on that.
Currently waiting on the info post, as the Misc./SCIENCE bits should prove interesting.
Wymar overruled us on Sheikah smoothly, so let’s call incarcerating them a prevented unforced error.
Friendship is indeed the best ship.
Vestele hitting us over the head with a truth-hammer after we’ve cheerfully ignored all the Fae hints so far. Probably an artifact or two we might be able to study, though Fae might not technically be Old Magic.
Assassination attempt: No ragrets there. Gained some intel (“hey look Zelda’s paranoia is accurate! Who knew?”), meanwhile Zelda’s fine. Probably in worse mental shape than before, but we’ll just have to work on that.
Currently waiting on the info post, as the Misc./SCIENCE bits should prove interesting.
Last edited:
- Location
- Under a Rock
Okay, we think someone threw a bomb at Zelda, and we think they have a second.
This attack seems to have failed. For all we know, being in this exact building is what they wanted.
Our objectives are to root out the conspiracy, and thwart secondary attacks.
Fi telepathy message to either Wymar or some other guard captain would be ideal. Seconds matter in force mobilization. and we might want to add that to SOP.
If Link has a description, we want that sent everywhere, with a preference for gatehouses.
This attack seems to have failed. For all we know, being in this exact building is what they wanted.
Our objectives are to root out the conspiracy, and thwart secondary attacks.
Fi telepathy message to either Wymar or some other guard captain would be ideal. Seconds matter in force mobilization. and we might want to add that to SOP.
If Link has a description, we want that sent everywhere, with a preference for gatehouses.
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
Update updated with updated bookkeeping. Working on infopost.
E: Forgot to add:
E: Forgot to add:
- Zelda is safe back at the castle. The details of the attack are still unfolding, but the casualties include two dead guardsmen, one injured guardsmen, six dead civilians, an unknown number of injured civilians, and one Sheikah guard that collapsed from magical exhaustion.
Last edited:
MMKII
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
Goddamnit
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
It sounds like the Fae are cajoling people into making Sacrifices for VP, or whatever their equivalent is, but unlike us they actually need that VP to continue to function properly.
...We can probably eat them for VP.
So, who's for asking the high priestess for a Fae-imbued object Zelda can sacrifice?
...We can probably eat them for VP.
So, who's for asking the high priestess for a Fae-imbued object Zelda can sacrifice?
Last edited:
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
*grumbles about stupid Courage fragment OP nonsense in QM*
- Location
- Under a Rock
I have a timing question. How soon after Link runs off will we be able to give commands to Fi? I was under the impression that it was something like 5 seconds. If we already have a body count, has it been longer?
MMKII
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
Heh.
By the way folks.From discord:
NOT PARANOID ENOUGHVecht said:
- Location
- USA
To be fair, a large part of my own lack of paranoia was the (justified and true) belief that having Link stapled to Zelda as a bodyguard would be enough to protect her from most all physical threat. And oh look it worked.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
The problem I'm seeing here is contradictory desires: We have a rather limited word count. None of these actions should take very long for Zelda, particularly if we're dictating the "how". But doing that in the detail you seem to want requires a lot more words than we are willing to spend on it. And I'm not sure how to fix that fundamental disconnect. This leads to turns that accomplish very little other than eating time for everyone, because we have to spend our entire word count on two action items that take a grand total of an hour. You then have to stretch that into an entire update.
Last edited:
MMKII
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
Yes, but its also a single point of failure apparently on the individual that serves as OUR single point of failure!To be fair, a large part of my own lack of paranoia was the (justified and true) belief that having Link stapled to Zelda as a bodyguard would be enough to protect her from most all physical threat. And oh look it worked.
I don't think injecting a few sentences worth of security precautions into an SOP is unreasonable here.
Voting Infopost
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
Voting System Overhaul 2: The Reduxening
It's pretty simple. 200 wordcount soft-limit, with no official time to the vote close. Wordcount over 200 costs VP equal to ceiling of (X-200)/10 per in-game day but otherwise has no limit. This overlaps with the brevity/conciseness incentive (below) and can cause it to go negative.
Unless otherwise specified, voting will be open from the moment a chapter is posted, and may be tallied at any time to decide what will be written in the following update. As before, we will still consider arguments and discussion when making determinations for the winning vote. That is -- if the vote is close, good arguments and better ideas for execution may make up for a vote or three.
For updates, I may write anything from a single 1-2k word scene to a full length chapter. Who knows! Expect shorter, but more frequent updates. In any case, I'll try and consolidate things nicely for later reading, using one of the currently unused tabs for story posts until enough has been written for a full chapter. This also means that you might not have nice and tidy bookkeeping at the end of every update, but I'll do what I can to ensure you always have updated information to work with.
If some elements of a plan are skipped over, you are free to include them in later plans, but they'll need to be re-voted. If you absolutely want a single item to happen, the only way to guarantee it gets written is to vote in a plan with exclusive attention given to that item.
I understand that the lack of a formal system may be a bit jarring. I ask that you bear with me here. We will do our best to be fair and impartial at all times, and I won't ever close the vote or start writing until there's at least a few votes up and you all have had ample time for discussion (at least 24 hours). The overwhelmingly important criteria here is allowing me to write when the mood hits or when the muse has gotten my attention, rather than trying to timebox my writing. We'll see how this goes. if there are issues, we have more ideas to try.
As a compromise to the players for any weirdness attempting this kind of structure with a simulationist quest, I am making the following promise:
There will never be any "gotchas" because you overlooked a detail or didn't think something all the way through before an early vote close (<24 hour notice), so long as it is reasonably likely the mistake would have been found and corrected given more time.
That means discussion is extra important, folks! We'll do our best to keep up, and will ask for clarification if there's any ambiguity. As before, your active marks will reasonably and intelligently interpret your directions at all times, and act according to your intent where possible if your direction is flawed (with Fi in her capacity as the literal embodiment of QM understanding of player intent being the ultimate arbitrator in all things). This might negatively affect your VP incentive in particularly egregious cases, but it won't ever result in super bad things happening in the story.
Incentives:
- You will receive up to 200 Void Power per in-game day for the winning plan, based on the same criteria as before. In the event of a non-integral number of days passing in the update, this will be prorated. Criteria:
- How well did you progress your goals?
- Did you take any risks, and did they pay off?
- How interesting was it for writing/worldbuilding?
- How frustrating was it for writing/worldbuilding?
- How clear and concise was your plan? (i.e. - how much effort did we have to spend reading and parsing it?)
- You will receive Void Power equal to the number of unique voters (max 50).
Last edited:
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
In light of these changes I believe we should not try to exceed 1-2 actions per update, and we should do our best to detail said actions, rather than trying to cram as many actions into a single update as we can fit.
For example the next plan should likely cover the aftermath of this attack, and contacting the Gorons.
For example the next plan should likely cover the aftermath of this attack, and contacting the Gorons.
- Location
- USA
On an unrelated note we've got another data point on research and have confirmed that 10 VP is a useless amount for such purposes.
----
People are really looking at this the wrong way, though. You see terrifying monstrosities, I see loyal demigod foot soldiers.
It's almost certain that we can sustain Fae on VP. What would it look like if we unlocked a less-evil Fae (Lucia?) and offered her a deal, a constant VP infusion for service? Great things, that's what would happen. The only risk is some theoretical opposition doing the same and/or coopting our Fae, but in an arms race you don't have to stop the other guy from getting the weapon, you just have to get it first and shoot him with it.
Last plan we tried to see if there was/establish some kind of staff for Zelda so that she could delegate stuff like this: straightforward but potentially finicky or time-consuming. We were then told in-story that the Council had that covered, don't worry. Myself I interpreted that as a QM directive to stop trying to make you make up NPCs/insulate Zelda from actually doing anything herself.
Zelda's the queen. She should have a dude she can point to and say "Find our where Anli and Seff got off to", at the very least. Gorons I can see your point, but honestly some boilerplate "hey stuff's on fire, want to talk?" message to open a dialog would have been reasonable to assume there too. Perhaps drafted by some court diplomat or a Council member or something.
For the Order thing in particular I thought "Contact Order of Sages for info on Old Magic, any artifacts they might have" was pretty clear, particularly in the context of all the thread discussion that's been had about it over the last few weeks. What more detail would you want there?
----
Not a half-bad plan and a nice infusion of VP, in all likelihood. Small problem is that Vestele is claiming that the records of where they are (I think it's those "records"?) were destroyed.
--
People are really looking at this the wrong way, though. You see terrifying monstrosities, I see loyal demigod foot soldiers.
It's almost certain that we can sustain Fae on VP. What would it look like if we unlocked a less-evil Fae (Lucia?) and offered her a deal, a constant VP infusion for service? Great things, that's what would happen. The only risk is some theoretical opposition doing the same and/or coopting our Fae, but in an arms race you don't have to stop the other guy from getting the weapon, you just have to get it first and shoot him with it.
It could be reasonable, sure, but I'm worried about the SOP getting bloated. I'm also unsure if having Fi telepathically scream at people or the like would be ultra-effective versus VP costs that we could otherwise use on Invigorate effects or the like in the near future. Not to mention OPSEC by letting any escaping assailants know something's hinky.
Feeling a bit annoyed here, to share my feelings. This isn't me trying to nitpick you into reversing yourself/justifying yourself on individual points, more using them as example for my confusion.
Last plan we tried to see if there was/establish some kind of staff for Zelda so that she could delegate stuff like this: straightforward but potentially finicky or time-consuming. We were then told in-story that the Council had that covered, don't worry. Myself I interpreted that as a QM directive to stop trying to make you make up NPCs/insulate Zelda from actually doing anything herself.
Zelda's the queen. She should have a dude she can point to and say "Find our where Anli and Seff got off to", at the very least. Gorons I can see your point, but honestly some boilerplate "hey stuff's on fire, want to talk?" message to open a dialog would have been reasonable to assume there too. Perhaps drafted by some court diplomat or a Council member or something.
For the Order thing in particular I thought "Contact Order of Sages for info on Old Magic, any artifacts they might have" was pretty clear, particularly in the context of all the thread discussion that's been had about it over the last few weeks. What more detail would you want there?
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
You never hide/dispose of all of the evil artifacts. There's bound to be one they keep around just to know what they feel/look like.
MMKII
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
What would be acceptable to you then? I.e. what would satisfy you to the extent you wouldn't be predisposed towards arguing against it?
Similar threads
- Poll
