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Looking for a Gamers who can help

Discussion in 'Fiction Discussion' started by blueayes, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. blueayes

    blueayes If you want peace ,than you must prepare for war.

    Looking for a Gamer who can help me make a game mix story more realistic. Be warned my spelling and grammar are terrible.
  2. Kokurokoki

    Kokurokoki I am mad!

    Is english your first language? You might want to brush up on spelling and grammar, or else it will be hard for readers to take your story seriously.

    Aside from that, what help do you need?
  3. Lord Death

    Lord Death The ignored one.... This was meant to be a joke

    Depending on what the games are and how you're hoping to mix things together i may be able to help, or i could cock things up completely.
  4. You should go to r/gamergate if you're looking for people naming themselves gamers.

    Otherwise just list what games you have!
    • Funny Funny x 2
  5. Kokurokoki

    Kokurokoki I am mad!

    He hasn't replied back at all for a few days now... :(
  6. blueayes

    blueayes If you want peace ,than you must prepare for war.

    Sorry real life is a bitch. I was hoping to be able to create something like Log Horizon, but the only games I'm really familiar with are the likes of pussel games, a couple of Fantasy and like God of War and the Call of Duty Games so some help would be appreciated

    Anything with R.P.G's please from guilds, to rules anything helps.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017 at 12:52 PM
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  7. Kokurokoki

    Kokurokoki I am mad!

    Well, from my limited experience, classes are usually divided into three groups.

    Tanks: Absorb damage from enemies, aggro enemies to keep them off of squishier teammates, usually have a lot of HP and defense along with skills that attract enemies by increasing aggro. Generally has lower damage output.

    DPS: High damage dealing characters. Focus on dealing a lot of damage to targets. Can be single-target or multi-target DPS, although I think single-target DPS classes tend to be more common. Low HP to offset high attack power and skills.

    Support: Provides buffs and debuffs to parties and enemies respectively. Tend to be weaker in terms of defense and offense, but that isn't always the case. Weaknesses are offset by powerful support skills like ranged/aoe healing, and damage/resistance buffs/debuffs.

    This is known as the "holy trinity" of RPGs. All three classes are meant to work together and the game's end-game bosses are usually designed around this concept. Sure you can solo the monster zones normally, but for high-level raids fighting together with a good team composition is a must.
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  8. blueayes

    blueayes If you want peace ,than you must prepare for war.

    • Hugs Hugs x 1
  9. Kokurokoki

    Kokurokoki I am mad!

    Some more in-depth notes on RPG classes.

    • High defense due to usually wearing heavier armor.
    • Carries a large shield to defend against enemy attacks.
    • Stats focus on HP, Defense, and some physical damage (usually Strength and/or Dexterity)
    • Some support skills to draw enemy aggro or increase defense. Examples of the former would be something like "Warcry" as an AoE skill that draws the attention of nearby enemies, passive skills that increase aggro generated per hit. Examples of the latter would be something like a "Mighty Guard" active skill that raises the shield for a few moments to parry incoming attacks or allow for absorption with reduced HP and/or stamina damage. An example from Log Horizon would be Castle of Stone which immobilizes the character but makes them immune to damage for a short time.
    • Some situational offensive skills that allow the tank class to also deal damage. For example, a successful block or parry after a "Mighty Guard" might boost damage for a short time for more action-oriented games, or you could have another skill that makes your next attack a unique attack with various properties and high damage.
    • An example from Log Horizon would be "Anchor Howl", which allows the Guardian class to deal a critical hit to affected targets if they try to attack anyone other than the Guardian class.
    • Another example from Phantasy Star Online 2 is a passive skill for the Hunter class that boosts damage for a short time following a Just Guard.
    • High damage output. Usually dual-wielding weapons or using two-handed swords/axes/hammers.
    • Lower health and defense compared to tank, but still relatively enough to be a tanky DPS that can survive some hits without assistance from healers/supports.
    • Stats focus on physical damage, with some focus on defense and HP.
    • Support skills may be situational abilities that focus on increasing survivability. For example, critical hits can restore hp, or the character can have active skills that increase evasion to allow them to avoid certain attacks. Offensive support skills may allow for successful dodges to increase attack power or something similar.
    • Defensive skills may focus on a more active playstyle. For example, DPS characters can have a parry skill that allows them to parry incoming attacks, but they must do it at the right moment.
    • Dark Souls characters are generally examples of DPS classes who have situational forms of damage mitigation in the form of blocking, dodging, and parrying.
    • Some variations of DPS characters exist. Mages for example trade consistent damage for large amounts of burst damage. The Assassin class from Log Horizon is an example of a melee-focused character that is capable of dealing massive amounts of burst damage which sets it apart from the Monk class which deals lower burst damage but can maintain constant damage on a target for a longer period of time.
    • Support class that focuses crowd control and team buffs.
    • Focus is mainly on magic power stats (intelligence, MP, etc.)
    • Support skills consist of AoE skills that can slow enemy movement speed, lower defense, lower offense, or make them weaker to certain elements. Team buffs can consist of skills that increase defense, HP, or critical hit rates among other things including heals and status removal spells.
    • Fairly squishy, and so they will generally be at the rear lines. In addition, the spells they use may be offset by long cooldowns or cast times, requiring tanks and dps characters to draw aggro away from them.
    • May also have offensive skills as well that focus on high amounts of burst damage but generates lots of aggro. This forces players to time their attacks accordingly such that the balance of aggro is maintained between party members such that tanks can remove aggro at any time in order to protect supports and DPS characters.
    • Shiroe from Log Horizon is one of the few MCs that play as a support class.
    There also generally exists hybrid classes like Red Mages (which are my favorite class) that strike a balance between magic and melee which allow them to fill multiple roles while not particularly excelling at any, but those are far more specific than the general Tank/DPS/Support trinity as they are subcatagories of those three main class types. If you want more specific examples, I can post some to give you an idea. A trick I've found for coming up with your own classes is to start broad and then figure out the specifics of what you want that class to do in a fight.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017 at 2:37 AM
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  10. blueayes

    blueayes If you want peace ,than you must prepare for war.

    I'm trying to wrap my head around this, sorry bear with me.

    I'll use a card game for example, a Monster Card is place as the attaching creature, it can be powered up by magic and traps, that in turn weaken the other players card, or increase your own monsters attack power.

    However a monster alone with powerful back up ability's isn't enough, each card in your deck support each other.
    For example a single powerful monster can win a match for you, but a series of weaker monsters work together with the magic and trap cards in order to weaken the other players creatures, while giving your main creature a better chance of survival, while at the same time allowing it to increase the amount of damage it can dish out.

    Sorry its my way of trying to wrap my hand around it.
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  11. Kokurokoki

    Kokurokoki I am mad!

    Kinda. Are you familiar with Yugioh? I can describe it that way.

    All character classes can be represented by Monster Cards. Tank classes can be represented by monster cards with high DEF values like Mystical Elf, Giant Stone Soldier, etc. DPS classes can be represented by monster cards with high ATK values like Gemini Elf. Now support classes can be represented by effect monster cards that don't have terribly high ATK or DEF values but instead have support abilities such as White Magician Pikeru or Jinzo.

    Now, you can think of the Tank and DPS classes as also having their own support abilities but more focused on their specific roles. For example, the Tank class can be represented by a monster card that has an effect where all of your opponent's monsters must attack that card while the DPS class may have an ability that lets them attack twice in one turn like the Hayabusa Knight card.

    Now in yugioh we also have spell cards and trap cards. Spell cards we usually play on our turn, whereas traps are set up on our turn and used to activate during out opponent's turn to trap them. Think of spell cards and trap cards as various abilities, skills, and spells that each character class can cast, except in this case each of these cards can only be played when a certain monster or character class is active on the field.

    Here's an example character class based on the yugioh cards that I came up with based on an old RPG game me and my brothers used to play with our yugioh cards when we didn't want to play yugioh.

    Summoned Skull (DPS)
    HP: 5000
    ATK: 2500
    DEF: 1200
    Class Ability:
    • Raigeki: Damages all monsters within attack radius, dealing Lightning damage.
    Support Abilities:
    • Reinforcements: Boosts ATK by 500.
    Mystical Elf (Support Tank)
    HP: 4000
    ATK: 800
    DEF: 2000
    Class Ability:
    • Gift of the Mystical Elf: Restores 300 HP to all party members.
    Support Abilities:
    • Castle Walls: Increases DEF by 500.
    • Negate Attack: Negates all damage of an incoming attack.
    White Magician Pikeru (Support)
    HP: 2000
    ATK: 1200
    DEF: 0
    Class Ability:
    • Healing Gift: Restores 400 HP over 2 seconds for 10 seconds.
    Support Abilities:
    • Pikeru's Circle of Enchantment: Blocks incoming damage dealing spells.
    • Magic Cylinder: Incoming damage to the target party member is dealt to attacking opponent instead.
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  12. Hykal94

    Hykal94 The Kitteh Knight of Islam

    Fucking nerd.
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  13. Kokurokoki

    Kokurokoki I am mad!

    fite me irl bro
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  14. Oof. Log Horizen is a high bar- the author was pretty high in an Everquest guild and did a fairly amazing amount of ground work on top of that.

    That said, something I should note for a story- the type of game you use should be informed by the type of story you want to tell. A lot of us can talk your ear off on game related topics, MMOs especially, but that will be less then helpful if it doesn't match up with what you want tell.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017 at 2:24 AM
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  15. Hykal94

    Hykal94 The Kitteh Knight of Islam

    @blueayes I recommend you look up MMO Grinder, a YouTube review series that does just that. See, unlike most people, Grinder has its own community and plays more MMOs than others do. They won't sit down and explain everything to a newbie, but even browsing a few episodes from old MMOs to newer ones is gonna help you a lot.
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  16. Kokurokoki

    Kokurokoki I am mad!

    I would also recommend that you do some research into the gamer and MMO culture, as it appears that you aren't very familiar with it going by your OP. You won't be able to make a genuine story without actually understanding your target audience. Sword Art Online is a great example because while everyone who hasn't played MMOs loved it, many of the MMO players who read the novel were at odds and sometimes even insulted by its worldbuilding. Contrast this with Log Horizon, where it resonated with the hearts of many MMO fans and veterans specifically because it came off as so genuine and actually managed to capture the spirit of MMO games. This is due mostly to the fact that the author of Log Horizon, Mamare, was a hardcore Everquest player who was apparently in a very high position in one of the top guilds of his days and would often stay up until 3 AM going on raids with his guildmates. In contrast Reki Kawahara only dabbled in MMOs, and pretty much wrote his story from a perspective of what he thought MMOs were about rather than how they actually were.

    In short, if you can capture aspects of the MMO culture, it will make your story come off as far more genuine than if you try writing a story about what you think MMO culture is like. Because often your story will fail to reflect the culture that you are trying to write about, which will offend and alienate your target audience. Overlord does a fine example of capturing that MMO culture, even though its story is more of a high dark fantasy with MMO elements. One thing that sticks out the most is how each of the characters of Momonga's guild are named. You have people with really strange names like Herohero and Touch Me, which reflects the naming conventions of IRL MMO players. I can't tell you how many times I've played online and run into people who have named themselves SexyBeast or WetSacks or something silly like that. And Overlord and Log Horizon both reflect this with characters like Crusty and Perororonchino. Additionally, the top players in a lot of games aren't going to be the ones with cool-looking and edgy gear. No. They will often be the guys in loincloths with angel wings and a horsehead mask (I'm not kidding, I literally ran in to someone like this about a month ago). Many top-ranked or veteran players will often be running around with goofy-looking gear or stuff that clashes against the lore of the setting, simply because it is kind of like a symbol of their skill and being amongst the top.

    However, if you're going to write a fantasy setting with game mechanics, I would recommend you don't. Most of the time those never work out well and come off as awkward at best. In fact, I've only seen one story that actually does that well and it's Kumo Desu Ga where the MC is reincarnated as a spider and the gameplay mechanics are used as both humor and worldbuilding. You would be better off just writing a fantasy story if you wanted to do something like that.
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  17. Hykal94

    Hykal94 The Kitteh Knight of Islam

    Do you know how many Uchihas that are running around in MMOs?
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  18. Kokurokoki

    Kokurokoki I am mad!

    Oh yeah. And Kiritos... and Asunas... but we don't talk about those...

    You don't ever talk about those. :oops:
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  19. Alright, going to dig into something that bugs me a bit, and is linked to the 'pick a game that fits your story': not every game is WoW or a WoW clone. It's popular, particularly in the MMO scene to the point of excluding anything else, and there are very good reasons for that (though some of them are tech based rather then actually necessary), but it's far from the only model. As an example, we haven't really talked about something like EVE Online which is drastically different then the WoW clones. And this isn't even going into different genres like shooters.

    Disclaimer: people talking about the Trinity of Classes like its the one true way to do things annoys the crap out of me, because I play a fair bit in a system, D&D 3.5/Pathfinder, that ignores the fuck out of that (mostly by predating it). It has its own roles, and aspects of the trinity have crept in (and I like some of those classes to!) but by and by large, the Trinity doesn't exist there. That is however getting into advanced topics, and for starting out the Trinity is a good starting point: it easy to understand and in wide use. However, that also means it been used to hell and back- you're not going to be drawing any attention for using it, and it screams bog standard MMO. Which can be handy, as Log Horizon demonstrates to good effect.

    However, if I was going to pick one thing, that all MMOs have in common, it's this: MMOs are a social experience. They are one of the most social things I know of, and more over, their cooperative. That's what really drives the stories of MMOs- not the game content or character power, but the crazy shit people get up to with other people.

    Let me talk about two different stories here. One is, yes, SAO, but the other is a series you might not have heard of called .hack//Sign. Now, let me lead off by saying I think SAO gets a lot more shit then it deserves. It's flawed, and dear god has it been flogged for it, but a lot of the criticism of it hits the point of creating problems. However, there is one point I think it pretty much absolutely failed on, in regards to MMOs and engaging with them: it never touched the social experience. The story of Kirito is almost always about a lone hero overcoming the odds, which completely misses the whole cooperative/social side that makes MMOs what they are. I'd say the one exception to this is Mother Rosary, which is widely considered the best part of SAO and uses Asuna as the protagonist, who is amazingly better suited for the idea of MMOs as a social experience. But overall, SAO never really engages with that social core, and that's what really drags it down on the game/story integration.

    Now lets talk about .hack//Sign. Now despite the nostalgia I have for the show, and no matter how much I love the sound track (seriously, go find the soundtrack, its fucking amazing) its a terrible show. The plot needs significant chunks of other media to be fully understandable (PS2 games) the pacing is all over the place, and the characters were only kinda memorable. The MMO in it, The World, was a buggy piece of crap that the show never engaged with the mechanics of. And yet. It got the social side of things. It was a show about getting to know other people, friendship, and not running from the world. It engaged with the social experience, and that I think is a big part of why it's still fondly remembered, despite its manifest flaws. Well that and the soundtrack. Seriously, that thing is awesome.

    Basically, unless you are willing to engage on the social side of things, don't touch the MMO genre. Use others- shooters, dungeon crawlers, arcade games- but the social side is to damn important to MMOs to cut out successfully. Which in turn, means you are very much going to need to write a team focused story- to much of the MMO genre is based on get to together with other people to do a thing. If your not comfortable with teams and organizations, don't use the MMO genre. Pretty much full stop.
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  20. Kokurokoki

    Kokurokoki I am mad!

    I mostly recommended the trinity of classes because it's a good starting point, especially if the writer isn't familiar with the mechanics of MMORPGs. It gives you a good groundwork to build around, and from a mechanical standpoint is easiest to balance for traditional MMOs. Breaking away from this standard requires a lot more work, and usually in my experience never works out well (although I've heard that Tera does a good job of this).

    However, if you're just writing a fantasy story, then you can disregard the trinity because it's not important for the sake of worldbuilding. I think D&D and Pathfinder do this well because they aren't constrained to video-game-style gameplay mechanics, but rather that their abilities also serve a sort of narrative significance as well instead of just being there solely for and balanced for gameplay. Tabletop RPGs to me seem to focus more on long-term strategy and representing real life, which is why you can get a broader range of abilities and classes. This broader range of classes and abilities are also due to the fact that each campaign is essentially its own standalone game, as rules and interpretations of abilities can change depending on the GM. On the other hand, video games in general appear to be balanced more for short-term strategies. Because everything is happening in real time, the player needs to be given instructions on what they can and can't do at that moment so that they can react instinctively based on a rapidly changing environment instead of taking the time to consult the GMs and other players through sometimes lengthy discussion as they plan what they need to do next. Additionally, because rules are set in stone from the beginning, there needs to be a consistent way for players to play the game, as games with constantly changing rules tend to not work out too well and feel artificial in terms of difficulty--whereas the abilities of tabletop RPs do allow players to account for sudden changes in the narrative. Thus, the mechanics of the characters that you play as in MMORPGs needs to be consistent not only with the rules of the game, but also with other classes to encourage class diversity and cooperation.

    Excuse me if that sounds confusing, I'm currently feeling ill so my thoughts aren't really together... XP

    In the case of .Hack not engaging with the mechanics of its world, it doesn't have to. The World was never really anything more than a backdrop for the main focus of the show, which was the social interactions between the characters. I don't think game stats were really mentioned at all in The World, and mechanics were only elaborated on when they were relevant to the conversation--which I remember was very rarely. At least that's what I remember, it's been forever since I watched that show.
  21. blueayes

    blueayes If you want peace ,than you must prepare for war.

    • Hugs Hugs x 1
  22. Hykal94

    Hykal94 The Kitteh Knight of Islam

    Part of the "trapped" in a game setting is, I feel, an author's either lack ofwriting talent or just a case of following the leader. And most of these trapped in game settings are almost always fantasies instead of sci-fi. I think a good chunk of fics, stories, based on MMOs are written by people who want to get into gaming but can't because of time or financial constraints. SAO isn't a good game, because the writer doesn't really play video games (and neither does Kirito actually). Elder Tales however, is a game I'd love to play, as the author actually knows about games.

    And to echo @Kylar, why MMORPGs? Why not stories set in horror games, action games, FPS games, and plenty of other genres? Because the social aspect is important. Overlord, the LN/anime, is set in a game, but there's more or less one player in the entire setting and it crosses far more into fantasy than games. However, because it is still a game, game mechanics are still prevalent. Overlord works without the social aspect, because Overlord is written from the groud up like an actual world.

    Speaking of which, @Kokurokoki brings up the holy trinity of tank, support and DPS. You don't need it at all, but it's a good baseline. And to use SAO again (because it's a dead horse that still spits out candy no matter how much you beat it), the anime does not understand this. Everyone is either a tank or a DPS. In a game without support skills, the author still went the route of the holy trinity despite the fact one third of said trinity is missing. The author does not "get it". Hey you know what multiplayer games work without the skills or the magic?

    Historical games. Mount and Blade, Total War, you know, games based on "historical" (and I use that term loosely) combat. SAO doesn't have bows because bows are overpowered :rolleyes:. It has horses but never uses them in boss fights because level design what's that? Where's the massive guilds building bridges, siege engines and stuff? Where's the healers in the form of alchemists and medics? Where's the guy who hauls around the loot in the wagon and sells them for profit? You can play Pathfinder, DnD, whathaveyou with whatever class as long the DM and the players know what the hell they're doing.

    Basically, if you want to set a story in a game, ask yourself: is it really necessary?
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  23. MJ12 Commando

    MJ12 Commando Shadow Cabal Barristerminator

    The easy SAO joke is that the inability to logout is a feature, not a bug, otherwise the game would be a ghost town in literally a month :V

    If you want to understand MMO game mechanics, you're going to have to do research as an author. Which means spending time downloading and playing through a lot of MMOs-at least far enough that you get to experience their full range of mechanics.
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  24. Roadie

    Roadie A Flock of Beagles

    Man what? The first printing of OD&D had the Cleric (healer/off-tank), the Fighting Man (tank/off-damage), and the Magic User (main-damage) as classes.
  25. Kokurokoki

    Kokurokoki I am mad!

    Some games I would recommend looking into would be TERA and Blade and Soul, if for nothing else other than the fact that you can level up very quickly and access some of the end-game content. However, the character art can be... cringy. All the females are dressed like sex workers with fetish wear--which is actually one of the main reasons I dropped the games. Other than that, TERA has a beautiful open world with some of the most impressive monster designs, while Blade and Soul has a fairly engaging singleplayer story and their mechanics are fairly solid. Just be warned of the cringe factor.

    While I wouldn't recommend it, Dark Souls 2 had a lot of potential to encourage class-play in a souls game. Some of the DLC areas seemed to encourage and reward class diversity like healers and tanks and ranged characters. Back when people used to play, I actually had legitimate success playing as a tank character with a high stability shield, a ring to increase my aggro to nearby enemies, and heavy armor to reduce damage taken. And thankfully, the game allowed for pretty seamless transitions between classes thanks to being able to respec stats and many weapons overlapping with certain stats. I was able to switch freely between a tank build and a DPS build with dual-wielded scimitars, in addition to a ranger build with bow because my character was a STR/DEX build which could use pretty much any physical weapon/shield.

    It's a shame that they didn't build upon this concept more in later iterations of the game, but its a fairly decent example of an ARPG that falls more in line with D&D style of play where even support players can still deal sufficient damage, and there was a notable amount of diversity within the 3 roles. For example, playing as tank I still had access to powerful melee weapons like greatswords, longswords, etc. to hit things with and deal respectable damage. Additionally, I could have invested some stats into my Faith in order to learn the Magic Barrier Spell, which is an AoE spell that increases all elemental defenses of both myself and my party members by about 15% for one minute. Even pure casters like clerics who specialize in healing spells had access to some of the most powerful offensive spells in the game like Lightning Spear which allowed them to attack from afar. It also helped that the devs later on made the AI fairly aggressive in the DLCs, forcing co-op players to implement a little bit of teamwork in their engagements as opposed to just taking turns backstabbing or ganging up on a single enemy (although that still happened a lot :( ).

    Unfortunately I haven't played D&D or Pathfinder, but from my limited experience, those systems work much better if you just want to tell a story within a fantasy setting. For more MMORPG stuff, you will need to actually take a good look into MMORPGs.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017 at 12:21 AM
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