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Stealth-Action Game Mechanics Fight

Discussion in 'Versus Debates' started by MJ12 Commando, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. MJ12 Commando

    MJ12 Commando Shadow Cabal Barristerminator

    Four stealth action game protagonists are tasked with completing each others' games. The rules are fairly simple-all of them start with only the abilities they would have at the start of their games. Weapons and pickups found in the games will be translated to the character's closest equivalent. They may use whatever upgrade system they have, and there should be some broad equivalency allowing them to upgrade-so Snake would presumably get GMP and resources by picking up Runes and money in Dishonored to research upgrades to his abilities and gear, Jensen would pay money for upgrades or get them via XP, Fisher would earn upgrade points via completing challenges, Corvo would get runes and money by picking up important stuff, so on and so forth. Similarly, door opening mechanics and the like stay, so Corvo can somehow keyhole peek through high-tech space doors while Jensen can hack 19th century locks via the power of augmentations. If there is a specific mechanic unique to that game which must be used for completing a mission (e.g. the Heart in Dishonored, hacking in DXMD, or the Fulton in MGSV) the characters will be given a basic, unupgraded version sufficient to do that task and that task alone.

    Adam Jensen (Deus Ex: Mankind Divided)
    • Extremely powerful nonlethal options with effectively infinite ammo (due to Disassembler mod)
    • Can. Actually. Turn. Invisible.
    • Excellent vertical maneuverability
    • Hacking means the ability to pay Praxis to bypass the whole 'hunting for keys and shit' gameplay that is common in stealth games
    • Bioenergy regenerates to a fair amount
    • Can upgrade himself to perform anything the other guys can, more or less
      • Blink? I've got that (as Icarus Dash). Super toughness? Dermal Armor 3 and health upgrades.
    • Melee takedowns cost resources
    • Incredibly weak without upgrades
    Corvo Attano/Emily Kaldwin (NG+ Dishonored 2)
    • Probably the best mobility of all the characters via Blink-chaining
    • Ridiculous powers like Domino, Bend Time, and Possession
    • Even Far Reach's 'reach out and hug someone' is pretty ridiculous
    • Lots of ways to neuter ranged attackers, who are common in the other three games.
    • Shadow Kill allows for easy corpse vanishing
    • Probably the weakest nonlethal takedown options (slide attack, drop attack, and choking stunned enemies only)
    • Only Corvo has a sniper weapon of any sort, which might be a problem doing certain games (I'm thinking MGSV here)
    • Kind of eh without upgrades
    • Low inventory capacity for gadgets
    • Fragile and resource-dependent (health only regenerates to a low level, mana regenerates even less)
    Venom Snake (MGS 5)
    • By far the toughest character out of the entire list, capable of absorbing basically infinity bullets without giving a shit
    • Good weapons accuracy even when on the move
    • Lots of inventory space and ridiculously tacticoooool weapons
      • Seriously like Venom Snake can carry more nonlethal grenades than Corvo Attano can carry bullets
    • Third person perspective
    • Fultons
    • Reflex Mode
      • Like seriously holy shit Reflex Mode is ludicrously OP
    • CQC chaining for close-combat
    • Enemies knocked unconscious wake up eventually
    • Fultons don't work in indoor areas, which there are plenty of in the other games
    • Limited vertical traversal options (not even a jump)
    • Weak enhanced vision modes (compare nightvision to Instinct, Dark Vision, Smart Vision, or so on, all of which allow you to see through walls and two of which allow you to predict guard routes)
    • Movements fairly loud without upgrades unless moving very slowly
    47 (Absolution)
    • Fast, unlimited melee takedowns
    • Disguises allow you to literally hide in plain sight
    • Incredibly tough and hard to kill
    • Instinct mode provides him with the ability to see through walls and predict enemy paths
    • Limited upgrade system
    • No in-combat healing
    • Instinct is a limited, depletable resource
    Which of these four stealth-action game protagonists has the easiest time, relatively speaking, going through each others' games? Which one has the hardest time?
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  2. ZerbanDaGreat

    ZerbanDaGreat Daemon Prince of Loving This Shit

    A fairly good rundown but you've kind of forgotten the other big connective tissue stringing these four characters (technically five but shut up) together. The first three's games are all intended to be stealth optional, whereas Hitman: Hitman can't hit more than one or two men out of stealth before he melts from judicious application of bullets to the face. That's an immediate huge disparity that more or less puts 47 out of the running instantly because of how easily his opponents can just facefuck all his man-hitting with their superhuman or anime-human abilities.

    The other thing to consider about the much more choice-based nature of the other three games is their nonlethal options being rated by their effectiveness when effectively they're only in the game for personal challenge. Without reasonable incentive to be saints, they will instead beast on each other's games no problem because as I can attest from my second playthrough of Mankind Divided, shotguns solve a lot of problems very quickly.

    Also I think you forgot Sam Fisher? You mentioned him in the first paragraph but he's missing from the rundown.
    • Like Like x 5
  3. MJ12 Commando

    MJ12 Commando Shadow Cabal Barristerminator

    One would assume that they're being rated for things like no-detection, no-kill, etc. or at the very least, how easily they can get through the challenges in each game.

    Anyways, I disagree on 47 being stealth-mandatory. Look at this shit.

    Also, I guess I did mention Sam Fisher and decided to take him out and then decided after posting that maybe he should be in here. So I guess a new challenger arrives

    Sam Fisher (Blacklist)
    • Some pretty bullshit weapons, like the armor-piercing sniper rifles and incendiary grenades
    • Oh yeah and he has like, a remote drone with tranq darts, which is all kinds of ludicrous
    • Mark and Execute is absolutely amazing
    • Variable-lethality, high-speed melee takedowns that don't need any effort or recharging.
    • Basically turns invisible as long as he has one foot vaguely touching a shadow
    • Free nightvision
    • Kinda bad at vertical maneuvering, even if he can climb a fuck of a lot more stuff than Snake
    • Limited in his non-warcrime options against certain targets (generally heavy armor dudes)
    • Relatively fragile if he runs stealth gear, even if he does have fast regenerating health
    • Unsubtle as fuck if he's going with assault gear, to the point where crouch-walking alerts like, everyone within ten miles.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. OkayishGatsby

    OkayishGatsby This Titan is Fine

    I figure Corvo would have a hard time dealing with MGSV. Void powers make stealth easy-peasy, but unless he can voidbullshit himself a rocket launcher, Sahelanthropus is going to be a fight and a half with a pistol and crossbow. That said, there are tanks and missile trucks around, so unless he can use those, he's boned.

    Same goes for 47. Disguises should make stealth easy, and MGSV's stealth sections aren't particularly hard to begin with once you have the patterns and map down. Then again, Sahelanthropus. Haven't played Absolution, but I don't think there's rocket launchers. Unless he can use vehicles, he's also boned.

    On the otherhand, with how vertically oriented Dishonored is, I think Snake might not even be able to finish it, but I haven't played Dishonored 2. I have played the first though.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  5. ZerbanDaGreat

    ZerbanDaGreat Daemon Prince of Loving This Shit

    Ah. My mistake you meant specifically the Absolution incarnation, I missed that somehow. But still while he'll have a sliiightly easier time of it thanks to his vastly increased health and theft of Mark & Execute, it's still a heavy mismatch. At the end of the day 47 is just a guy who Hits Mans and leans heavily on social stealth, and dressing up like the enemy doesn't mean much when you have mandatory battles with a cyborg with a minigun for an arm or superpowered parasite zombies.
    • Like Like x 4
  6. MJ12 Commando

    MJ12 Commando Shadow Cabal Barristerminator

    I think the rocket-launcher only bosses (which honestly only includes Sahelanthropus and that one mission where you have to defend Quiet) would fall under the "the character is given the bare minimum necessary to get shit done" provision in the OP.

    Corvo with even a basic rocket launcher would probably do okish because you could just empty all the rockets in Time Stop, then run away real fast.
  7. EarthScorpion

    EarthScorpion CR of the Thrown

    We cut to Empress Emily the Unsubtle being handed Raiden's sword and scaling Sahelanthropus like it was a Shadow of the Colossus boss while a Maniac Agenda cover of Drunken Whaler plays.
    • Funny Funny x 12
  8. Imrix

    Imrix Periodically Malevolent QM

    I suspect 47 does pretty well at Dishonoured, at least, just because the Overseer's provide him with ready access to perfect disguises to amble up to his targets and garrote them in the bathroom or something.
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