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Historic The ask questions about history thread.

Discussion in 'History & Military Discussion' started by Arrou, Jan 11, 2015.

  1. It also allowed the Eastern Roman Empire to (re)conquer a lot of Anatolia and seriously weakened their opponents there which to some degree was the whole idea behind the crusade.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. all fictions

    all fictions Painted Black

    Montreal, Quebec
    Hm, could questions about pseudo historical events like King Arthur, the Mahabharata War, the Trojan War, etc. go here or should I start a new trhead?
  3. Hykal94

    Hykal94 The Kitteh Knight of Islam

    I don't see why not. It may be mythology but mythology is grounded in history. The history we don't know about.

    And in contribution to this, I want to point out that Arthur was a real person, we have a records of him as a military leader (not a king).

    Robin Hood however, is utterly fictional and is neither historical nor mythological.
    • Insightful Insightful x 3
  4. Ironanvil1

    Ironanvil1 Riding a metaphorical pony Magistrate

    Luton Airport
    If anything, he's potentially a marketing gimmick.
    • Funny Funny x 4
  5. all fictions

    all fictions Painted Black

    Montreal, Quebec
    Alright, hope there is someone well versed in Ancient Greece/Classical mythology here.

    My question is: what is the more likely date of the fall of Troy? Not the year, obviously, since that's way too much conjecture, but the day and month? Because I can't seem to find a fixed and agreed upon one:
    1. First, Wikipedia tells me April 24 is the "traditional" date, but there are no source for the citation. Only respectable authority I found corroborating this is a National Geographic article. And yet, the Trojan War article gives me "As for the exact day [of Troy's fall] Ephorus gives 23/24 Thargelion (May 6 or 7), Hellanicus 12 Thargelion (May 26) while others give the 23rd of Sciroforion (July 7) or the 23rd of Ponamos (October 7)."
    2. Another date I saw was May 9, which the author took from the writings of Church Father Clement of Alexandria and Christian scholar Eusebius of Caesarea as well as the Parian Chronicle.
    3. However, a site mentions a work which also used the Parian Chronicle, but instead calculates that the date given actually corresponds in modern datation to June 5th. It also mentions a certain Dionysus (Dionysius of Halicarnassus?) as another authority.
    4. I've also seen some use Aeschylus' play The Oresteia, where it is mentionned the fall of Troy took place ‘at the setting of the Pleiades’. Taking it litterally, since the cosmic "setting" of the Pleiades is in late autumn, they deduced that the fall of Troy was on October 19.
    5. And finally, twopapers did some astronomical calculations based on verses in both The Iliad and The Odyssey that seems to describe eclipses to determine the dates of the death of Patroclus and Hector in early June and the fall of Troy in early July.
    And so, I guess my question is what seems like the more reliable/likely/corroborated date for the capture of Troy for Antiquity buffs?
  6. Marla


    So hm, I can ask anything historical here right?

    So I have a question, what is it with the Dutch and land-claiming? Because you see, here in Malaysia there is a proverb: Seperti Belanda minta tanah, direct translation would be "Like the Dutch claiming lands" with the negative implication that the Dutch back then likes to steal/cheat their way to get more lands. That's pretty damn specific and considering that English colonized most of Malaya rather than Dutch before they exchanged some of their territories in Malaya for more of the Indonesian islands with the English, having the Dutch specifically mentioned in one of our more popular proverbs seemed like a pretty curious thing.

    So anyone knew why?
  7. vicky_molokh

    vicky_molokh The *other* transhuman[ist]

    Kyïv, Ukraine
    Can someone, please, concisely and objectively/neutrally, explain the Thatcher era of the UK to me, including what the 'Iron Lady' actually did/achieved/ruined/etc.?
    Whenever the topic comes up, people seem to describe her as either the glorious saviour of the United Kingdom from collapse, or a demon who ruined everything, while the sources that seem less biased tend towards low substance-per-word ratio, kinda defeating the purpose.
  8. Hykal94

    Hykal94 The Kitteh Knight of Islam

    Maybe it's an exported Indonesian idiom.
  9. Marla


    Well could be, but pretty sure the Indonesians don't call them Belanda anyway. But that's not what I'm wondering about.

    No what I'm curious is what exactly the Dutch's reputation during the heights of colonial age, because I noticed in the Extra History thread of someone mentioning about 'the Dutch and lands' as if the Dutch back then really really like colonizing/taking in land to the point of gaining some sort of reputation from it. Considering there's actually a proverb about them, that must be a strong/well-acknowledged reputation except nothing about them was mentioned in the school history textbooks. Heck the proverb could even rise from Englishmen sneering about their colonial neighbour and the local people heard it and somehow making them an example of terrible greed.
  10. Hykal94

    Hykal94 The Kitteh Knight of Islam


    You must not be very familiar with Indonesian history, Marla. Or just Colonial history in general.

    And Indonesians call the Netherlands Belanda. Literally go to the Wikipedia page and switch to Indonesian in the left.
  11. Salbazier

    Salbazier ....

    On phone, want to sleep, but in short, yeah, we Indonesians call them Belanda. As for stealing lands, well, they were our colonizer and conquerer. Obviously they liked taking lands.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  12. NothingNow

    NothingNow Florida Man

    Falklands, Killed the coal industry, Reaganomics but worse, invented soft serve.

    That's pretty much everything.
  13. Chumbeque


    In other words, privatization, screwing up Unions and bringing the UK into this logic of neoliberal economics where state stops caring much about social services and such.
  14. Could France have held back the Germans in 1940 without the BEF?
  15. Vyslanté

    Vyslanté Putting the "late" back in "translate"

    If they knew that the Germans were comming by the Ardennes, probably.
  16. DocHawkeye


    New York
    Yes, France could've easily wrecked the Manstein plan with a number of changes in the position of units and even slightly improved communication between Gamelin's HQ and his subordinates.
  17. Ironanvil1

    Ironanvil1 Riding a metaphorical pony Magistrate

    Luton Airport
    The lack of the BEF might have dissuaded Gamelin from pushing the Dyle Plan that threw the French forces out of order and made reacting to the German advance far more difficult.
  18. Numby

    Numby Blood of Biggles

    Orlando, Florida
    People talk a lot about medieval warfare, but end up meaning European medieval warfare. I'm curious about the tactics of other cultures and Empires at that time. For now, I just want to ask about the tactics of the various Muslim armies during the Crusades. Is their a notable difference in their tactics between them and the Christians they fought against? Did they have some equivalent of a knight?
  19. Ironanvil1

    Ironanvil1 Riding a metaphorical pony Magistrate

    Luton Airport
    You could say that fursan were basically Islamic "knights". In general you get somewhat lighter gear to cope better with the warmer climates and more emphasis on archery and mobility than the European man at arms of the same era.
    The institution of the mamluk or ghilman slave soldiers also tended to mean that the Islamic equivalents were better disciplined and organised than the Europeans at a formation level.
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  20. Hykal94

    Hykal94 The Kitteh Knight of Islam

    Not exactly Crusades era, but here's a PDF about Fatimid army (pre-Saladin kicking them out).
    • Informative Informative x 2
  21. Radek

    Radek Promethean

    We know with reasonable accurace how Roman armies of various eras were organised, but what about other empires? How would a Persian force of similar size have looked, or a Chinese one?
  22. Hykal94

    Hykal94 The Kitteh Knight of Islam

    Here's a good answer on Chinese militaries. It won't give you numbers, but it will tell you how different the mindset is compared to the rest of the world.
  23. That is because what you ask is impossible to do justice without "getting wordy" or getting normative values involved, especially the acieved and ruined part.
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  24. She was elected on a right wing ticket but had won her votes by shifting focus from large enterprises towards small business owners. The biggest policy: Modernising the economy. She deliberately shut down resource extraction and industrial production to focus for technological and financial concerns. Today its fairly unthinkable that a government had a deliberate policy of destroying jobs (and meny people were unable to get another) but she was broadly correct about how the future economy would evolve. For more infomation see every whine thread in off-topic about how robots are destroying manufacturing jobs.

    She also instituted a scheme known as right-to-buy. In Britain land is expensive and after world war 2 a lot of housing stock had been bombed. Mix in a growing population and the end result is that something like 25% of the population was living in council owned homes and were unable to buy their own property. Right-to-buy allowed these people to buy the houses and flats that they already lived in. There were some provisions (you had to have lived there for X years) but essentially there was a surge in home-ownership and the scheme is broadly regarded as a net good.

    She was massively in favour of privatisation. I'm not sure anyone has ever sat down and worked out how much effect this had and, to be honest, governments that succeeded her have done much more.

    The unions were against her and so she utterly broke them. Many people don't bother signing up outside of a few specific professions. (I think there are now three different unions for teachers to sign up with because screw effective collective bargaining). There were many riots and I'm sure the police wish they had the kind of trust they had in the pre-Thatcher era.

    Also, the Falklands war. That went well. People died but it was clearly more effectivly fought than almost any other campaign in modern history. I once heard a US diplomat who was trying to hold negotiations mourne that her government wasn't willing to talk it out with Argentina. Sucks to be him.

    One final note, her policies benefited some parts of the country over others, which obviously looks bad and sucked to live through. It would be political suicide to be as bull-in-a-china-shop-ish today even if some politicians secretly agree. Modern concensus is that we must have both a 'northern powerhouse' and more devolved powers to regions. The usual party arguments are about the extent and how it should be done.
    • Informative Informative x 7
  25. galahad

    galahad Seeker of Truths

    Why did not China in the heyday of her imperial power push into SE Asia ? From what I understand the Chinese never pushed further than northern parts of Vietnam, Thailand and Myanmar. They did not bother much with Malay peninsula,Java and other lands to south.
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