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Megathread The First 100 Days: Trump Administration

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Zephyrus, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. Aaron Fox

    Aaron Fox Personally, why not?

    This is 'TO THE BUNKERS!' level of plausible fear. We're not exaggerating here, as it wrecks at least a few 'gentlemen' agreements about electioneering major powers.
     
  2. Lunatic350

    Lunatic350 Yub, yub, Commander.

    Yes, yes, this is big so jump headfirst into every response. I'm sure that's the best possible route and will have no potential backlash whatsoever.
     
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  3. Avernus

    Avernus Abomination

    Sure. The Republicans will be in charge, and can just squash any official investigation and most government dissent. The people's opinion won't matter. If it mattered the woman who won the popular vote would be the one taking office, after all.
     
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  4. Richardson

    Richardson Not here Now.

    If he's innocent, he can finish taking power and get impeached when he fucks up normally.

    Until then, we have a situation where the president-elect has been accused with apparently credible evidence of having colluded with what is still effectively an enemy nation-state working against the United States, has been according to those accusations working with them for at least six years to undermine the political process and the democratic workings, has conspired to commit espionage against government officials for personal gain, and has promised to willingly surrender national interests to said hostile power.

    AKA: The literal definition of treason as per the US constitution. Given that he can shut down investigations into himself, it is a national conflict of interest to allow him into office until such time as these allegations can be proven false. As such, the contingencies should be activated and should have Speaker Ryan take over as Acting President until such time as innocence can be proven or guilt confirmed. The consequences of not giving this matter the full weight of the federal investigative apparatus are too dangerous, and the situation literally unprecedented and potentially union-breaking to do any other thing.

    if we're wrong, then we can at least be assured of regular malicious-grade incompetence. If we're right, then this is worth any and all actions to prevent.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017 at 1:28 AM
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  5. Van Ropen

    Van Ropen Angry, angry about elves.

    >implying anything is gonna come of this


    Come on guys. It's goddamn incredible, yeah, but if the people inclined to support Trump don't want to feel that he's guilty of anything...
     
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  6. Richardson

    Richardson Not here Now.

    Then if this is true, we can expect Bad Things. Nobody wants Bad Things, because there's no telling if it's just 'assassinated by the CIA' bad or 'Shattered Union/WW3' bad, or somewhere inbetween. Better to stop now and prove things one way or another, and then resume normal operations only if he's proven innocent.
     
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  7. Avernus

    Avernus Abomination

    Yes; I'm pretty sure that Trump and Putin could both publicly affirm it was all true, complete with documentation and it wouldn't change anything. The Republicans clearly don't care, and everyone else is unwilling to even criticize them too hard; much less stand up to them.
     
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  8. no.

    no.

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    At the very least, I want to get the Pissident's approval ratings below 30%. However, impeaching him within hours of him taking the office, ripping his power away before he can use it, would be the most immensely satisfying conclusion of all.
     
  9. Van Ropen

    Van Ropen Angry, angry about elves.

    Hmm?

    It's "Trump and friends get richer, Russia makes progress towards strategic aims, quality of American security apparatus degrades" bad. Frankly, that's the situation pretty much regardless of whether this is all true or not, given the power of appearances.

    Dunno what mechanism you're imagining being used anyways. The only option is impeaching him on Jan 21st then having things investigated, and that won't happen. If the political will for that doesn't exist, why would even more extreme measures be accepted?
     
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  10. Teen Spirit

    Teen Spirit I don't actually know what to put here.

    Okay so Cohen almost certainly has never been to Prague but that was always the uncertain part. so it doesn't dismiss anything.
     
  11. neonium

    neonium

    Location:
    Canada
    This thread is seeming more reactionary than I remember. Pretty sure everyone panicking about this could stand to take a night to sleep on this and formulate a more reasoned response in the morning.

    Time might not be on our side, but credible sources are claiming to look into this; lets give them some time so you have something resembling a substantiated source to act on, should that prove necessary.

    The presidency isn't a dictatorship, if he shuts down all investigation into the matter it'll get out and he'll be ousted on that alone. You can't use a position that's under that much scrutiny to degree that you can't be investigated or prosecuted, we've seen where trying to cover up misdeeds, simply perceived or otherwise, gets you in the past.
     
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  12. Richardson

    Richardson Not here Now.

    No, because if this is true, then there are elements within the government who are going to go extrajudicial/legal on Trump rather than let the puppet of a foreign power remain in the highest office, and there is no telling how things will spiral from that.

    The biggest issue is that nobody ever thought someone would be so stupid as to buy and succeed with a bought presidential candidate. There is no precedent for this situation, and it's best to just go with the contengiency reserved for if there is no accepted president-elect from the current amendments until such time as he can be proven to be 'trustworthy', or at least as far as you can soil the meaning of Trust with being associated with Donald Trump's normal sliminess.

    As has been repeatedly said, the situation is unpredictable enough and dangerous enough that the rational and sane course of action is to put the brakes on everything and appoint the next duly designated person in the chain of command (Speaker Ryan) outside of the 'administration' that can be reasonably assumed to be relatively clean until such time as we can confirm Trump to either be guilty or clean.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017 at 1:42 AM
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  13. Avernus

    Avernus Abomination

    It doesn't need to be, since the people in charge of doing the "ousting" will be helping him shut down any investigations instead. There's no checks and balances when one side controls them all.
     
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  14. Van Ropen

    Van Ropen Angry, angry about elves.

    No they won't. We're already seeing a bit of brain drain from our intelligence and nuclear science communities, that will simply be exacerbated. Provisions have already been made to specifically target individual civil service members with pay cuts - if needs be institutional purging will simply be extended. Meme magic aside, this isn't actually a techno thriller. At worst the CIA and Co isn't gonna kill the man, they're gonna start working around him to some degree - further degrading affectiveness, yes.

    You're operating under the assumption that he'll suddenly be considered unacceptable. Tough as it is to accept, I'm questioning that. Congress won't impeach unless their constituents back them.
     
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  15. Aaron Fox

    Aaron Fox Personally, why not?

    Thing is, in US politics being a traitor is worse than being corrupt. It took the better part of two two-term presidencies for the Democrats to regain any resemblance of power...
     
  16. RRoan

    RRoan Technogaianist

    Uh, do you really think that Trump shutting down an investigation into the possibility that he's a Russian puppet would go down well with most of the Republicans in congress? The only thing that could look worse is if he outright pardoned himself for it.
     
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  17. Avernus

    Avernus Abomination

    I don't know what you are talking about.

    And the Republicans have no concern for loyalty to America; just to the party. Nor does anyone hold them responsible; there is a massive double standard in how the parties are treated. Trump won't get in trouble for this any more than he got in trouble for threatening Hillary Clinton with death or imprisonment; he's above the law for all practical purpose.

    EDIT:

    They either won't care or they'll lionize him for it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017 at 2:01 AM
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  18. Aaron Fox

    Aaron Fox Personally, why not?

    It's called the Civil War, and the Democrats suffered immensely in terms of political capital. That is why the Radical Republicans were able to take charge and go through with the entire Reconstruction. It was the Radical Republicans' antics and the bloodletting in the occupied districts that ended the Reconstruction.
     
  19. vali

    vali

    Location:
    A Library
    If this were anyone but Trump, I'd blow it off as a hit piece full of unverified speculation. It's just so extreme, so sketchy, so nakedly partisan, that taking it at face value feels wrong. But this is Trump, who exists in his own reality tv universe where anything is possible, and who has been accused of being close with Russia since the election started, and apparently lots of important people are taking this very seriously, so now I am genuinely unsure.
     
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  20. Avernus

    Avernus Abomination

    It was also very long ago in a very different country, and not really a relevant comparison to modern American political culture.
     
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  21. neonium

    neonium

    Location:
    Canada
    This is exactly the sort of silly response I was hoping people would refrain from posting.

    I would be extraordinarily surprised if there aren't more than enough republicans in the vein of McCain willing to take action to unseat the president if this proves true; the fact that not all of them have the political capital to spend their free time pissing on their own party's candidate doesn't mean they're not there.

    I think we need to take a moment for self reflection and remember the difference in between not liking a group and universally demonizing them.
    I'm quite skeptical that the most rational and sane thing to do is to take completely unprecedented, and likely illegal, action to stop him from taking office. Collectively and metaphorically blowing our load in a fit of panic, breaking the legal backbone and destroying a great deal of trust in the transfer of power, is unlikely to be helpful or reasonable in any way. You'd almost certainly do far more damage then Trump could ever hope to do in the office; either the man lets the investigations go on and we likely get to hear the truth, or he takes actions tantamount to an admittance of guilt and gets impeached.

    Any scenario where the republicans try to leave him in office despite this fact is based of the inane assumption that they are, practically to the last man, a group of mustache twiddling villains. Worse, it seems to be based on the premise that we have some magical degree of influence over events that dries up the second Trump is inaugurated; where exactly is the legal authority to take these actions supposed to come from?
     
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  22. Aaron Fox

    Aaron Fox Personally, why not?

    It is part of the American culture be political or otherwise. Being considered traitors more or less got your political power gutted just on shear principle alone.
     
  23. Avernus

    Avernus Abomination

    Yeah, right; I've watched people say for months that the Republicans would stand up to Trump. They've done the opposite.

    Nor have the Republicans shown any history of caring about loyalty to the nation or its laws. Recall Iran/contra? Or Bush II exposing an American intelligence officer? There was no outcry from the Republicans over that. They by all appearances simply don't care.
     
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  24. Best Case: Trump takes office, resigns.
    More likely case: Trump takes office, is impeached before May.
    Worst Case: Four years of bitter bitter fighting between the Presidency and every other branch of government leaving the country weak and broken.

    There's some crushing irony in you saying "we can't hesitate or make sure of what we're doing" when that is literally Trumps biggest failing. There's even more irony in the fact that this kind of "fuck it just go with the gut to prevent imagined worse case scenarios" is what got Trump elected in the first place.

    Your best case scenario ends with an active insurgency you nutbar.

    Richardson's imagined mechanism is a polite coup d'etat, because somehow that will preserve America.

    You realize those are not even vaguely comparable to the allegations against Trump, right? Like in any way, shape, or form?
     
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  25. Richardson

    Richardson Not here Now.

    Well no SHIT, sherlock. We're in that territory. We are in the kind of political territory where governments regularly get topped and everything goes to shit. If this is true, the legitimacy of the federal government is now officially gone, and Trump is not a graceful loser who is going to go 'good show on catching me, I'll give up now'. That's the whole point of saying 'stop until we can verify he's clean'. If we're wrong, god please, then we can set up a proper system for saying that all political candidates should be fully 100% vetted to prevent these kinds of scandals in the future. If we're right, everything is going to go to hell in a handbasket no matter what happens.
     
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