With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Thirteen)

[Count Rushcore]

Ah. If x is a bad person, then don't use thing invented by x? A very emotional decision to make.

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The "bad person" in this cas is John Money, and there is a lot of criticism involving him when it comes to ethics. Specifically research ethics involving studies about Gender identity and Gender reassignment. Not too far fetched that people who skimp on one type of procedure won't do so on another.

I'd agree with you if it would involve a person who is a "bad person" in circumstances that would not directly involve his research.

 

[TheBiggerFish]

Oh dear. This update does not read like it's going good places. Someone please tell me when ParaPaul stops blatantly misgendering the guy who he's supposed to be trying to help.

 

[Ragnar]

Someone please tell me when ParaPaul stops blatantly misgendering the guy who he's supposed to be trying to help.

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Going by Zoats responses in thread, and his distinction between different characters actions...

I think it's clear the SI doesn't really give a shit.

 

[Prince Charon]

So... you refer to him with male pronouns, otherwise you're being a complete asshole. This is genuinely disrespectful and makes me think less of the Illustres and Beryl.

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Beryl at least has the excuse of being a teenager who hasn't thought this through. Paul doesn't.

 

[Pinklestia]

Oh dear. This update does not read like it's going good places. Someone please tell me when ParaPaul stops blatantly misgendering the guy who he's supposed to be trying to help.

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Didn't you hear? At some point Oh El started being the Renegade and Grayven the Paragon.

Oh El is now basically pragmatic neutral at best.

While Grayven has switched to well intentioned Noble Demon and sometimes Hero.

 

[Vaermina]

What's gonna suck a lot is the pay disparity if she ends stuck as female and has to get a job.

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Given her power-set and previous work experience Electrical companies would jump at the chance to get her as a line-man.

 

[query]

I'm curious how a Paul that didn't have a power ring (and didn't appear in space) would do in this DC universe?
I assume he would seek some means of personal protection and I wonder what sort of tools/augmentations he would seek out?

 

[Aabcehmu]

I'm curious how a Paul that didn't have a power ring (and didn't appear in space) would do in this DC universe?
I assume he would seek some means of personal protection and I wonder what sort of tools/augmentations he would seek out?

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Paul's primary inherent distinguishing qualities are meta knowledge and soullessness. Meta knowledge can be used to avoid danger zones (to a degree) and sold to the likes of Batman with some care to avoid laying too much suspicion on oneself. Soullessness mostly seems to be a downside, though it does open up opportunities like the ones the SIs have to taken to construct one for oneself, which might present some interesting options.

Both of these assume that Paul manages to survive insertion without the ring, which is definitely up in the air considering canonically he appeared in Earth-orbit wearing nothing like a spacesuit.

 

[Insomnius]

I thought Paul was all about being polite. Seems awfully rude to constantly refer to Mr. Hamill as a woman when he clearly doesn't like it. Additionally since Mr. Hamill is undergoing a great deal of stress at the moment and Paul is just exacerbating the situation.

 

[Monshroud]

Considering Canis, Scott Free, Big Barda and Paul know a good deal more than most about Apokolips and it's ruling class, I'm surprised none of them have outed "Glorious Godfrey"...

Or does he NOT have his hit show on GBS yet?

At any rate, if Granny Goodness actually has the nerve to visit Earth and assume a false identity as a philanthropist/businesswoman selling VR goggles, here's hoping Paul uses all his means and resources to get that elderly embodiment of Child Abuse OFF the planet he's living on!

 

[Gore17]

At any rate, if Granny Goodness actually has the nerve to visit Earth and assume a false identity as a philanthropist/businesswoman selling VR goggles,

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Already on Earth in canon. Has been for 70+ years.

Though a random theory of mind is that Goode is indeed human, but one Granny turned into what was essentially a subservient clone.

 

[Monshroud]

Already on Earth in canon. Has been for 70+ years.

Though a random theory of mind is that Goode is indeed human, but one Granny turned into what was essentially a subservient clone.

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And "Goode World Studios" seems to be the substitute for Warner Bros., if the logo is any indication...

Oh dear God.

Does that mean she owns the equivalent to Cartoon Network and the film rights to the Lord of The Rings and Harry Potter franchises?!

SHE MUST BE STOPPED!

 

[Geminii]

I mean, there's nothing really stopping the SI picking up DNA traces from wherever Hamill's been living, and he does have a ring capable of completely remaking a body. The question is whether the H-dial transformation is sufficiently magical/hypertech to resist being power-ring-reverted.

I'm going to assume that, based on the arc so far, this is not going to be resolved in three minutes by the SI scanning the river, pulling the dial out, and having Hamill dial (presumably, based on his transformation) E-N-I-O-R-E-H.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Zoat, cmon. We just got past the religion debate and then you bring in a gender argument?

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Hold my milk.

He. Still a dude.

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Oooh. This is going to be one of those things where you find out that the writer's social views are radically different from your own, isn't it?

Both myself and the SI are of one mind on this matter. Joe Hamill is presently a woman. She was a man, and she is perfectly entitled to argue that she should be a man. She is perfectly entitled to state that she wants to go back to being a man. And the SI is going to aid her in realising that ambition. But at present, she is not a man. She also isn't a dog. She also isn't a wall, or a flower, or an attack helicopter, though those are perfectly fine things to be. She is plus breasts vagina minus penis testicles facial hair. She even has one of those ridiculous costumes certain comic illustrators like to draw on female characters but not on male ones.

She is a woman.

Considering Canis, Scott Free, Big Barda and Paul know a good deal more than most about Apokolips and it's ruling class, I'm surprised none of them have outed "Glorious Godfrey"...

Or does he NOT have his hit show on GBS yet?

At any rate, if Granny Goodness actually has the nerve to visit Earth and assume a false identity as a philanthropist/businesswoman selling VR goggles, here's hoping Paul uses all his means and resources to get that elderly embodiment of Child Abuse OFF the planet he's living on!

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I can only assume that Scott and Barda never went to Earth 16.

 

[Piell]

Ah, the bullshit attack helicopter anti-trans bigotry, I haven't seen you in a while!

 

[Akatsunami]

Oh boy... My danger senses are tingling...

 

[Avernus]

I really hope this doesn't spark an argument that gets the story and or Zoat kicked off the forum.

 

[theaceoffire]

Hold my milk.

Oooh. This is going to be one of those things where you find out that the writer's social views are radically different from your own, isn't it?

Both myself and the SI are of one mind on this matter. Joe Hamill is presently a woman. She was a man, and she is perfectly entitled to argue that she should be a man. She is perfectly entitled to state that she wants to go back to being a man. And the SI is going to aid her in realising that ambition. But at present, she is not a man. She also isn't a dog. She also isn't a wall, or a flower, or an attack helicopter, though those are perfectly fine things to be. She is plus breasts vagina minus penis testicles facial hair. She even has one of those ridiculous costumes certain comic illustrators like to draw on female characters but not on male ones.

She is a woman.

I can only assume that Scott and Barda never went to Earth 16.

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...When you said 'Hold my Milk', I think you forgot to tell us what was IN said milk.

Ah well, who doesn't love delicious controversy! Tainted milk for everyone!

 

[HanEmpire]

Can we just drop this subject, or at least take it to another thread? This topic has the potential to blow up.

 

[Empiricist2]

I'm just glad that Zoat believes in equal opportunity to make people mad.

 

[Geminii]

...really, by now, you'd think the SI would have started looking into duplication tech/effects.

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...and thinking on it further, couldn't the ring create a clone body out of thin air and copy his mind-state across? He doesn't actually physically need a soul-structure to live/think/operate out of the gate, right? With sufficient spare rings and lanterns, it shouldn't be too hard to create the Paul Corps from scratch. And with enough Enlightened Pauls, rings, and lanterns focused on a given task, would it be possible for them to start generating rings and lanterns on their own?

 

[LoserThree]

Oooh. This is going to be one of those things where you find out that the writer's social views are radically different from your own, isn't it?

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You didn't have to include that character in such a way that would invite the objections to which you might feel some radical-honesty- or honor-driven duty to respond in such a way that runs afoul of the way you very well know this board works.

I get 'art' and 'authenticity' and such. But every artist sacrifices their vision in order to commit it to medium. There is no medium as expressive as the human imagination. Sculptors have to keep in mind the load tolerances of their marble, bronze, and clay. Musicians are limited by the range and particulars of their instruments, including human voice. Summer blockbuster auteurs are limited by what their financial backers believe will give them a return on their investment.

And authors are limited by the scruples of their publishers.

I mean, I think you're in the wrong, socially and psychologically and physiologically and such. But what I'm trying to say here is that what's about to happen didn't have to. You could have been better than this.

 

[Trifith]

I'm with HanEmpire.

This thread is not the place for this discussion. I would much rather the story continue, rather than the mods be forced to step in to stop this argument.

 

[The_Letter_K]

Can we just drop this subject, or at least take it to another thread? This topic has the potential to blow up.

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Not sure how effective that's gonna be. The story is going this direction now. Unless we want Mods squatting in the thread 24/7 until this section concludes, I don't think it's avoidable. Wouldn't have recommended this myself, but I'm not driving here. It's not too late to turn around, but people's issues with the way this is being presented aren't going to change as it continues to be presented that way. People will talk, and it's a contentious subject.

You can't even claim, like with the religious debate, that it's not story relevant to discuss, or that it's not discussing the chapter to talk about it. It's directly relevant. (IMO that argument was more than a little flimsy last time anyway, but whatever.)

Honestly, even if we convinced Zoat to change his mind, and I would love it if we did, he's the sort of guy who would keep it going in story ANYWAY, because the SI never had the forum discussion and thus wasn't convinced. Zoat's gonna Zoat.

 

[Happy Hampster]

Considering Canis, Scott Free, Big Barda and Paul know a good deal more than most about Apokolips and it's ruling class, I'm surprised none of them have outed "Glorious Godfrey"...

Or does he NOT have his hit show on GBS yet?

At any rate, if Granny Goodness actually has the nerve to visit Earth and assume a false identity as a philanthropist/businesswoman selling VR goggles, here's hoping Paul uses all his means and resources to get that elderly embodiment of Child Abuse OFF the planet he's living on!

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what happens to what they embody if you kill them?