With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Thirteen)

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21st century
I mean, if we clarify our definitions and how we see the nature of hate, we can eventually come to a agreement. It's just a matter of describing each well enough that the other can put together a more complete picture from incomplete words.
The problem is that you are defining hate one way, and they are defining it a different way. Instead of arguing based on a definition, come up with a new word to describe what you're talking about. Call it blux. Trust me, it works quite well in situations like this, and there's nothing I blux more than someone arguing and not getting anywhere due to communication issues.
 
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United States
No need to apologize. Wouldn't be the first time we've had parallel discussions going on.

It's mostly grammar. There are a few minor retcons but nothing that has an impact on the actual story, just small corrections to unimportant bits to fix continuity.

Also, the "original" thread has been dead for years ever since we moved from SpaceBattles to Sufficient Velocity.
Thanks for the info. This is definitely one of the best SI's I've read, especially as you rarely find decent male SI fics.
 

rkyeun

Cabbitus Maximus
Location
◕ ‿‿ ◕
I agree that you might have a different definition for it, but as I see it the word 'hate' refers to that emotional response wherein you hate someone and then justify it afterwards.
Yes, this part we disagree on. When I defined hate, I did not specify how it was reached. The word is now taboo. I will instead replace it with "An emotional response in the bearer indicating its recipient thing is a continuous source of harm to the bearer as long as the recipient exists, even if not currently present, and the bearer does not see any means of recourse other than the recipient's destruction." Which is a lot longer, but avoids the misunderstanding we're having. If you mean something else, put that definition in quotes like I have mine, and we'll discuss them independently.
Yes, rational people as opposed to emotional people are given to emotion when they are warranted. That's not some extra special thing, that's just how I, and the roughly half of people like me work. When an emotion floats up into my mind, it is like a pointer in a computer, and it points to some object I feel the emotion about, which is correlated to all the necessary causes for why this emotion is being felt. When those pointers are malformed, I acknowledge them as incorrect and reject them.
 Sometimes the way we feel is wrong.
I also have depression, and it is trivially easy to tell the depressive thoughts from the normal ones, because the depressive ones are either null pointers made up with no reference, or the chain of causes is warped. That doesn't stop me from feeling them, it just lets me know they're invalid and should not be acted on. Denying them is in part how I've held myself together.
And yes of course when you escape the simplistic you might have to play game theory, but it's still right to "have an emotional response in the bearer indicating its recipient thing is a continuous source of harm to the bearer as long as the recipient exists, even if not currently present, and the bearer does not see any means of recourse other than the recipient's destruction" towards the cannibal village if they really are all out to get you. That doesn't mean "stupidly go try to punch them all and get captured serving no purpose". Even if you aren't physically capable of protecting yourself, you still continue to have "an emotional response in the bearer indicating its recipient thing is a continuous source of harm to the bearer as long as the recipient exists, even if not currently present, and the bearer does not see any means of recourse other than the recipient's destruction" at them from the inside of the stew pot for as long as you can, looking for an out.
Dude, can I sig you?
I wasn't aware that was a thing that needed permission. It's not like I could stop you. So sure. What are you sigging?
When was he banned before?
The succubus illustration. It was ugly and hideous, but it had nipples. So it got dinged.
 
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U.S.
The problem is that you are defining hate one way, and they are defining it a different way. Instead of arguing based on a definition, come up with a new word to describe what you're talking about. Call it blux. Trust me, it works quite well in situations like this, and there's nothing I blux more than someone arguing and not getting anywhere due to communication issues.
The problem is, the definitions are going to be different no matter what. Words are annoying like that; everyone has slightly different definitions for everything. So to even understand what exactly the other thinks in the first place, we have to work at it until we have enough puzzle-piece bits of information to assemble into a picture. Acknowledging that the definitions are different is just prudent.
 
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Los Angeles
So what do we do now? I wasn't aware that he got banned before. I also have this question, who exactly decides what hate speech is? And yeah its a bit rhetorical. If you ask me, to many people these days are simply to sensitive. Granted, none should act rude, but people need to be able to express their views and opinions. So what if its controversial and unpopular?
 
Stop: Stop

foamy

Lying liar who lies.
stop That is quite enough of this. I have no intention of playing fire-fighter and addressing each and every person who reads this as they swing by and notice the furor and decided to comment on it individually. The thread is therefore locked on a temporary basis. I will reopen it once the knee-jerk reactions are out of the way.

A fuller statement is pending and will be edited into this post.


official staff communication

For the most part I expect you could happily read threads in our fiction forums for ages without ever running up against Rule 2, "Don't be hateful", what it means, and the thinking behind it, which probably helps explains the general surprise about the last few hours.


It is often the case that people who end up on the wrong side of the rules (falsely) claim that they were hit 'because I disagreed!'. That's not what happens.

Sufficient Velocity has a goal of being welcoming, open, and inclusive. The rules are in service of that goal. Thread disruption is prohibited because it discourages people from participating. Incivility and harassment are kiboshed for the same reason... and, of course, it undergirds Rule 2.

I think everyone can agree that a forum where slurs can be freely posted, or users mocked and denigrated, is a deeply unpleasant place. Sufficient Velocity aims to not be one of those places, which are unfortunately very common on the wider internet.

So how does this relate to 'attack helicopters' or 'trap'?

Put at its most bald, they're both deeply insulting ways to refer to transgender people.

The attack helicopter phrasing casts something very real and important as both trivial and absurd; the best case is that it is a mindless 'joke', a repetition of malicious mockery by someone who didn't realize that was what it is.

But even in that best case, it serves to drive out people who have done nothing wrong and who should expect and deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. And we don't want people being driven out, so it's covered by Rule 2.

As for 'trap': We view it as a slur. But why? Isn't it just a way to describe a feminine guy?
No. It's not just that. There's a whole lot of baked-in baggage with it, starting with the 'feminine guy' assumption. Trap is a word that specifically reduces someone to their sexual attractiveness, specifically with regards to a usually straight and male audience, and then says surprise, you shouldn't have been attracted to this person!. It is gay and trans panic garbage and we have heard from our trans users (and Staff members) that it is a very hurtful term.

And so it's not allowed. It's nothing more, or less, than we do for slurs aimed at ethnicity, religion, or other sexualities: they are prohibited because they hurt.

That it may be widely used elsewhere is an excuse we've heard many times before, and it's not one we've ever accepted. You're not posting there, you are posting here, and our rules and standards apply.



ancillary stuff
A few other points:

1. The only person who can speak authoritatively to what @Mr Zoat is going to do is @Mr Zoat. Nobody else should be saying 'this is what will happen' and, effectively, spreading rumours.
2. Zoat's suspension is for one day.
3. Trying to snark about mod decisions is a bad plan. If you disagree with an action taken against you, the Appeals forum is available. If you want to argue for a change in policy, you can visit the Staff Communications forum.

If you just want to vent spleen or score likes, keep it to yourself. I will be liberal with the threadbans for people who don't take this advice.
 
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Crimson Doom

Insert clever quip here
Location
Towards nothing, away from nothing
Can't he just transmute more clothes out of air molecules or something?
I don't think OL knows how to transmute matter. Plus, there aren't that many situations in which you'd need to transmute matter where you couldn't just substitute having a bunch of stuff stored in subspace instead.
 
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Alabama
I don't think OL knows how to transmute matter. Plus, there aren't that many situations in which you'd need to transmute matter where you couldn't just substitute having a bunch of stuff stored in subspace instead.
Unless I'm mistaken, he's been building complex objects out of other things for years.

The example I think of first is that weird meta-material that Io and Ted Kord were so fascinated by. He can build the object out of whatever material is around him, but he couldn't make it thaumically active. If he can build something out of that, surely creating a robe is stupidly easy in comparison. This was so out of place that it took me out of the story when he was like, "we can get you some clothes later" - Paul builds complex runic arrays out of other bits of matter like gold or whatever else for Septhian to use all the time, but he can't do cotton?
 

Crimson Doom

Insert clever quip here
Location
Towards nothing, away from nothing
Unless I'm mistaken, he's been building complex objects out of other things for years.

The example I think of first is that weird meta-material that Io and Ted Kord were so fascinated by. He can build the object out of whatever material is around him, but he couldn't make it thaumically active. If he can build something out of that, surely creating a robe is stupidly easy in comparison. This was so out of place that it took me out of the story when he was like, "we can get you some clothes later" - Paul builds complex runic arrays out of other bits of matter like gold or whatever else for Septhian to use all the time, but he can't do cotton?
I had forgotten about that; point conceded. Yeah, that is kinda weird.
 
Location
Alabama
You have to remember, he works with GREED.... making stuff he wants to make, easy. Making stuff he doesn't care about... like clothing for someone he doesn't care about? Harder... if it was Zee that needed a robe, it would be instant.
Sure - you're correct.

Can turn propel asteroids into the moon, but can't be bothered to conjure a jacket for someone. That's a silly as hell limitation to enforce there.
 
Location
barnaul
Here’s the other thing though - clothes need to be fitted to a body size. Loose clothing or clothing with an uncomfortable design probably wouldn’t be comfortable for someone new to their body.
 

RichardWhereat

The Dawn Will Come.
Location
Wodonga, Australia
Holy crap...it wasn't me this time! Yet...why am I not surprised that out of all the topics that could have done it...it was this one.
I was quite surprised as well.

I'm kind of surprised that Paul doesn't have modular clothes of some sort. Being a hero means helping people, and sometimes helping means loaning them some sweatpants and a loose T-shirt.
That might be something that this episode teaches him, to go to a walmart and buy all the clothes they have in store, so he's never caught out again.

He might even meet Butler-Man.

Still; last post.
 
Location
U.S.
Passing along a message about the future location of WTR, as requested by Zoat. Hopefully this doesn't count as... evading the ban, or w/e. He's waiting for the results of his appeal before deciding whether or not to move. Proof:
 
Location
The Hub
Arbitrary Placeholder Author: *Says a thing.*
People who follow the authors work but have strong personal opinions about said thing: "If you have any poo, fling it now."
Me: "Excuse me, but what the fuck."
 
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